Cheap Lighting for home user ?

Does it work with a cheap 500 W Halogen lighting ? (please see photo)

The one used to light up for workers at night

Thank you

Hi ZORRO,

It will depend on what your Cam is, how much Lite you really need, and just what you're trying to Video.

I've got a Double Unit like that, but have not had to use it yet.

Should do OK, as long as you White Balance properly.

Harold

A whole lot of people on this board use lights just like that and double units for 1000 watts total also. I have several of them. The main thing, as Skater said, is that you have to manually set the white balance because halogen is a different color temperature than sunlight.

As for determining how much light you need that will only come with practice. Too much light means blown out colors. Of course you can do things like bounce your light off of things to reduce the amount of light and you can use diffusers. Also you can add dimmer switches to your lights. I've done that with all my lights. Dimmers do work with halogen bulbs. I attached dimmers to the back of my work lights but you can also add them inline in the power cord. Just make sure your switch doesn't overheat and is rated high enough to work with 500 watts. I've posted photos of my lights with the dimmers added if you're interested. You can see my photos at this web site (http://www.fotop.net/KingGhidora/light_switch/dimmer_install_2) if you're interested.

If you do want to make you own, be careful with interference. Non-professional components, especially dimmers like King has on his units, can play havoc with audio equipment. As you can probably guess, wireless mic systems will have the most problems with RF interference. That's one reason pro lighting equipment costs so much. It's designed not to interfere with audio like home store gear will.

Good luck.

Dennis

Thank you for your replies and tips all,

I have an optura 600 so i can adjust the white balance manualy. And my mainly use for this type of light is to shoot indoors like at home, or in a family party.

Do you think it is enough with only 1 x 500W, or should i buy the double 2 x 500 W (please see photo), if my shooting will only be in a room not bigger than 7x7 meters ?

And will i still have problems with interference even if i don't install a dimmer ?

Thank you

Good lighting is usually done with at least 2 lights and usually 3 for the best results. You don't want a straight on light because it makes your subject look flat. Different setups call for different lighting but generally you want 2 lights from 45 degree angles on either side of your camera. The 3rd light is from behind to eliminate those remaining shadows you get from front lights. I strongly suggest that you read up on lighting techniques because there are people who know the subject far better than I do.

I'm glad you mentioned the interference thing Dennis. I tested my mics in my various recording devices with these lights to make sure I wasn't going to have a problem. My good mics didn't pick up any interference at all but I have a cheap lav omni that certainly did. I would never use that mic for any paid gig but I have thought about using it as a backup mic. I'll have to be sure it doesn't get too close to any of my lights because it picks up noise as soon as the lights are plugged in with the dimmer installed.

I had seen other people install dimmers in old threads on this board. That's where I got the idea to install dimmers. They didn't mention any interference problems though. I should have thought of this possibility before I made permanent changes. I'm glad I didn't have to put the old switches back in my lights.

Someone maybe ought to mention the possibility of inteference in those old threads I suppose. It's a good idea to have dimmers but not if you're going to get interference problems. It's would be a good idea to test the dimmers with your mics before making any permanent changes to your lights. I was just lucky that only an older, cheap mic was affected but clearly there is a possibility that other mics and equipment could have problems with these dimmers. My guess is that a 60 hz filter or a custom filter could remove most of the noise you would pick up from something like this but obviously that will affect the sound in ways you don't want. I know Goldwave has a filter that will remove any noise based on a sample which is designed just for problems like this but again that's sort of a last resort type fix for a problem.

Good lighting is usually done with at least 2 lights and usually 3 for the best results. You don't want a straight on light because it makes your subject look flat. Different setups call for different lighting but generally you want 2 lights from 45 degree angles on either side of your camera. The 3rd light is from behind to eliminate those remaining shadows you get from front lights. I strongly suggest that you read up on lighting techniques because there are people who know the subject far better than I do.

Good advice, King. Here's a few lighting tutorials.

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/lighting/spears1.php
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=getpage.jsp&A=getpage&Q=Product_Resources/lighting1.jsp
http://www.diynet.com/diy/hp_cameras_equipment/article/0,2033,DIY_13955_2649651,00.html
http://3drender.com/light/3point.html

I'm glad you mentioned the interference thing Dennis. I tested my mics in my various recording devices with these lights to make sure I wasn't going to have a problem. My good mics didn't pick up any interference at all but I have a cheap lav omni that certainly did. I would never use that mic for any paid gig but I have thought about using it as a backup mic. I'll have to be sure it doesn't get too close to any of my lights because it picks up noise as soon as the lights are plugged in with the dimmer installed.

It's always good to keep audio cables away from electrical and video cables. Those cables will radiate noise that will be picked up by the audio. Keep them at least a few feet away. If they must cross, cross them at right angles to minimize the noise.

Someone maybe ought to mention the possibility of inteference in those old threads I suppose. It's a good idea to have dimmers but not if you're going to get interference problems. It's would be a good idea to test the dimmers with your mics before making any permanent changes to your lights. I was just lucky that only an older, cheap mic was affected but clearly there is a possibility that other mics and equipment could have problems with these dimmers. My guess is that a 60 hz filter or a custom filter could remove most of the noise you would pick up from something like this but obviously that will affect the sound in ways you don't want. I know Goldwave has a filter that will remove any noise based on a sample which is designed just for problems like this but again that's sort of a last resort type fix for a problem.
I don't think it's 60 Hz noise. From what I've read, dimmers like you buy in a typical home store will convert relatively quiet 60 Hz AC power into a spiky mess with harmonics all over the auditory band. You'll have a tough time filtering that out. "Leaving it for post" is definitely not the way to go.

Good luck.

Dennis

PS: It's probably obvious, but if you use these high wattage lamps, make sure your circuit will handle the current.

What I got with my cheap lav was sorta spikey but I believe my audio editor would deal with it. It was mostly 60 hz stuff with a few spikes but it was a consistent enough pattern for the editor to pick up on.

I gave the mic the acid test anyway with the cable looped and tied with a twist tie and stuck a few inches from the dimmer. You're right of course about keeping mic cords away from AC cords. I've been doing that for a lot of years. I do believe I could minimize any interference even if I did want to use that cheap lav and clean up the rest of the mess in post.

I certainly wouldn't want to use this as my primary audio. The only thing I would ever use that lav for would be to fill in the gaps of audio that my good mics might have missed. I need to get a good lav for sure and I expect it would come with much better shielding on the cables and not be affected by my lights.

At any rate a person should probably test any dimmer they intend to use for interference problems before they commit to installing it permanently. It might save having to buy new work lights if you do a lot of modifications to install the dimmers and find you can't use them. Like all electical equipment, the design will have a lot to do with such issues so changing brands of dimmers might give you a problem free setup instead of an unusable one.

These web sites have really helped me learn the basics of lighting. I learned a lot from a photography class too but these web sites are more directly applicable to video lighting. I think you can learn enough to do a basic interview from these sites. I have also learned from the Scott Spears article you linked to and I believe it was you that pointed me there. There's also a second page to that article and I have included the link to that page here. I particularly like the Steve Smith series listed here.

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/lighting/spears2.php
http://www.exposure.co.uk/eejit/light/
http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/lighting/spears1.php
http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/tutorials/light01.htm
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0011/columns_frameset3.html
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0102/videosmith.htm
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0101/videosmith.htm
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0012/videosmith.htm

Thank you guys very much for the tips and the links

Regards

The biggest problem with these lights is that they are too hard

but there is a cheap portable and safe way to soften these up

i got my dad to weld a nut and bolt to the side of a metal tube

or pay you local car garage to do it they will not charge much in their tea break :)

then weld that to a u shaped piece of metal bolt drill a hole in it and bolt it through the existing light cover bolt and mount an your umbrellas - umbrellas are cheap like this check out ebay or adorama

a nifty trick is to have one light with a 500w halogen light tube in it and the other with a 300w halogen light tube bulb in it so you have effectively full and half power plus you could bounce the main one of the ceiling avoid coloured walls and use the other as your key light very soft and flattering for the older ladies and gents and makes babies look cuter too :) :) using a two light rig also mean you have a spare light incase one goes mid shoot as there is nothing more amateurish than saying sorry me lights broke :)

i have a few image posted here see bottom of the linked pages
http://www.samanthajohnson.freeserve.co.uk/HC14E.htm

but here is one snap
http://members.aol.com/samscartoons/Pictures002.jpg

http://members.aol.com/samscartoons/Pictures004.jpg

i also have a silk umbrella that i can fire through but this is a fire proof photax one so a much safer bet - it is reversible so white one site and silver the other

A whole lot of people on this board use lights just like that and double units for 1000 watts total also. I have several of them. The main thing, as Skater said, is that you have to manually set the white balance because halogen is a different color temperature than sunlight.

As for determining how much light you need that will only come with practice. Too much light means blown out colors. Of course you can do things like bounce your light off of things to reduce the amount of light and you can use diffusers. Also you can add dimmer switches to your lights. I've done that with all my lights. Dimmers do work with halogen bulbs. I attached dimmers to the back of my work lights but you can also add them inline in the power cord. Just make sure your switch doesn't overheat and is rated high enough to work with 500 watts. I've posted photos of my lights with the dimmers added if you're interested. You can see my photos at this web site (http://www.fotop.net/KingGhidora/light_switch/dimmer_install_2) if you're interested.

King - I like your idea of installing a dimmer on the worklight. I checked the link where you have uploaded pictures and it looks pretty cool. Would you be able to provide me steps on how to go about doing this? Also, I wasn't sure if the dimmer you used comes with an insulated cover for the back. Thanks!

The lights come with a swtich located on the back where I mounted the dimmers yogs so it made it pretty simple to replace that switch with a dimmer switch. I bought a solid pvc box from the house wiring department. These are similar to the gang boxes that are used to mount electrical outlets and wall switches in a house. There's a name for the solid box I used but I just can't remember it right now.

I bought dimmer switches rated high enough to deal with the bulbs and the correct covers to go over the switch and attach to the gang box I was using. All of these things are pretty easy to find at Lowe's or Home Depot or some electrical store. I just took my time and made sure I had the parts I wanted. If you saw my photos you know what the boxes I used looked like.

To mount the box to the back of the light I drilled holes in the back of the gang box to match the holes where the rear plate mounted on the back of the lights. I also drilled a larger hole in the center of the gang box to match up with the hole the original switch was in on the plate on the back of the light. I ran the wires from the dimmer to the wires through the hole where the old switch had been and inside the light box and just wired it up just like the original switch. I then used longer screws than the ones that held on the original back cover for the lights to attach the gang box where the old plate had been. I even got to use the rubber o-ring that surrounded the old switch to weather proof the two holes in the gang box and in the original plate on the back of the light.

It probably sounds a lot more difficult than it actually was. If you have any experience with wiring it shouldn't be a problem at all. All of the work lights aren't made the same so you might just have to use your imagination. If you have too much trouble I'll take one of my switches off and take photos to show you what it looks like as I put it together.

I like using the dimmers because it gives you the full range of power for each bulb. I generally bounce the light off of whatever I can find but I will use it straight if I'm in a big enough room that bounced light isn't strong enough. I think a lot of the harshness of using the lights straight can be fixed in post pretty easily. It just takes a lot of processing time.

Thanks King for the detailed instructions. I was initially looking for a variation of a plug in lamp dimmer such as the one found at http://www.dimmers.net/credenza_lamp_dimmer.asp. Of course, I would need a 3 pin and a high wattage dimmer. But I couldn't find one. Your technique will help me solve the problem. Thanks again!

One thing y ou may want to consider yogs is that dimmers can cause interference in mics with cables that aren't shielded well. My dimmers cause a problem with one stereo lav that I rarely use but the potential is there. Before you may any alterations maybe you could wire up your dimmer and try it to see if you have problems with any mic you might be using. It can be done that way if you're careful. Just don't get yourself shocked.

I don't have any problems on any of the high quality mics I own but you just never know about these things. There is a potential problem there.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/43000-43099/43060.gif

Here's a pretty cool dimmer for just $12!
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43060
It's meant for a router, but works great for dimming lights.

Also, try to run your audio cables on the opposite side that you run your AC to eliminate the chances of hum and buzz. If you have to run them next to each other, run them parralel and avoid crossing them.

When you dim tungsten lights though, remember the color temperature is going to shift warmer. So a bit of CTB (color temperature blue) gel will cool it back down.

Also, try bouncing the light off of a wall or white board such as foam core to soften it up.

I've seen those dimmers in the Harbor Freight flyers and I wondered about using them with lights. I just didn't know if they were rated high enough for a 1000 watt light. I figured they were since they are meant to be used as a speed control for a router. That's the woodworking tool btw and not the computer network gizmo. :) I checked the web site. Their rated at 15 amps so that's high enough for 1500 watts.

I like buying stuff from HF. They have great deals on stuff. I'm also thinking about building a shed using all their flyers rolled up into logs. Man they send out tons of those things. :) I get at least 5 per week and sometimes as many as 8 or 9 a week since I often get 2 or more a day.

Thanks Guy for the link on router speed control. I will order it for my next work light.

I managed to affix the regular dimmer to the worklight following King's instructions. It works great. And there is no sound interference with my Sony bluetooth wireless mic ECMHW1. Thanks again King!