hi,
I am in the market for a new minidv camcorder and am very confused. Everyone i ask gives me a different opinion. Ok, i want a camcorder to video my kids video and sound are both important. Consumer reports says that the elura 60 has poor sound quality. Have you experienced this with the 60 or the 65 0r 70? I also just got a ibook mac and want to have the ease of downloading video onto the computer so that i may burn dvd's. A retailer told me that sony has incompatibility issues with mac. Apple seems to say this isn't true, but i dont know again. The cameras that i seem to keep hearing about are the sony dcr-hc40, the canon elura series either 65 or 75 if they are better than 60 with sound and the optura series. We really don't want to spend what the optura is if we don't have to. What are your opinions on what is the best camera for videoing home videos of family and kids where sound and video quality are very important!!! and ease of downloading and compatibility with mac. I am open to other models also these are just the ones that i have seen. I really want to spend something in the 500 range if possible.
thanks, L

Look at the Panasonic PV-GS120 before you decide on anything else. Read the review on this site. It's a great consumer camcorder. You'll probably have to spend a little more than $500, but not much more if you buy from a reputable online dealer.

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Fred

thanks,
I have read a little about that panasonic also, but have heard mixed things about panasonic in general. how does the panasonic communicate with a mac?
thanks,L

The 1394 digital link standard was conceived in 1986 by technologists at Apple Computer, who chose the trademark 'FireWire'. It was adopted in 1995 as the IEEE 1394 standard at about the same time that Sony introduced its trademarked i.Link.

An unknown number of people have problems with Firewire transfers and others have no problems. I am in the latter case with two Sony's (HC40 and TRV460) tested on at least six computers (all PC's, none Mac). Apple has a "compatability list" which did not seem current/updated the last time I saw it. I'm not sure where the current list is maintained. I do not own a Mac.


Rich

Your salesman was full of crap, and was probably trying to upsell you on a different product. This is typical and in general any advice they give you should be taken with a huge grain of salt. See the Apple website for a list of compatible camcorders:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/camcorders.html

While I am a Mac enthusiast I currently do not own one. I hope to change that with the next tax return, and I will add either an iBook or PowerBook to the computer collection. The point I am trying to make is that I am rusty and out of date with current Mac technology, but in general PC's use a program to "capture" the video from the camera. With Macs I think you can do this with iMovie and/or iDVD. I think those "approved" camcorders are those that work with those programs. Possibly using a 3rd party program would increase the number of compatible camcorders. That is just my assumption, but it might be worth checking out. Either way, the Apple site very clearly indicates the HCR-40 is indeed supported.

Also I might note that alot of these threads you see about not being able to capture video relates largely to user error. Some people don't realize their cameras have a Firewire port and that is what they need to use. Some don't have cards. Some don't know to use a capture program. The list goes on and on. I do believe that some genuine problems exist, but I strongly believe the larger portion is more related to the general lack of knowledge of the consumer. Of course, that is okay, we are all here to learn something. Just be careful how you evaluate all those posts.

In closing, have you checked out the "best camcorder review" section on this forum? It lists the top camera in several different price ranges. As previously mentioned the Panasonic GS120 seems to be a really good pick for value and features. It might be a little higher than your price range, but it might be the best extra $50 or $100 you spend on such an investment. Remember, you will probably have this camera for awhile and you don't want to regret the decision you made. Simply not going out a weekend or two would save the extra money needed to buy the camera of a better caliber.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/conten...-Camcorders.htm

The idea of a computer with an IEEE 1394 port not working with a device like a camcorder that uses the IEEE 1394 standard is foreign to me. I've never owned a MAC, and they may posess virtues I've never experienced, but video capture may be an area in which the open architecture of the PC has resulted in more universal compatibility.

--
Fred

A couple of you have noted that i should check out the panasonic 120. Also it was said to check the apple site to see which ones are compatible. The sonyhc40, the optura 30 are both on that list, however the panasonic 120 is not. That said which out of those 3 would you buy for great video and sound quality videos of family inside and out??
Thanks,
L

From the Apple compatability list:"Panasonic All Panasonic DV camcorders with FireWire (IEEE 1394) output are Mac-compatible."

That would include the Panasonic GS120.




Rich

Yes, in general Firewire (IEEE 1394) is a universal standard that can be used equally on either the PC or Mac platform. I believe it was Apple that introduced the standard and labeled it "Firewire".

The reason you want to use Firewire over USB is simple. First off, unless you are using USB 2.0 then the speeds are dramatically slower. USB 1.1 is only rated at 12mb vs. USB 2.0 which is rated at 480mb. That is a huge difference. Firewire is only at 400mb unless you get the new stuff Apple introduced called Firewire800. As you may have guessed by the name it transmits at 800mb. But speeds are deceiving as those are listed maximums. I believe the video actually transfers around the 40-50mb range.

The second part of the equation is that USB "bursts" during transmissions which can cause a loss of frame rates. Firewire is constant so you greatly reduce your chances of frame loss.

DDigital video (DV) that is used on miniDV cams needs 25 Mbps bandwidth. Firewire (standard, not the new 800 version) is more than enough.

Another reason USB is not used for video is that most NLEs will not see a cam on the USB port. They are designed to use Firewire since it is the preferred method for capturing video. Those few that do require USB 2 on both the cam and the computer. And very few cams have USB 2 so we're back to Firewire as the way to go.
[/QUOTE]The second part of the equation is that USB "bursts" during transmissions which can cause a loss of frame rates. Firewire is constant so you greatly reduce your chances of frame loss.[/QUOTE]Yes, Firewire is an isochronous protocol that works better with time sensitive data such as streaming real time video. For more tech info on Firewire see these sites:

http://www.1394ta.org/Technology/
http://firewire.adaptec.com/1394_summary.html
http://www.reed-electronics.com/tmw...e/CA214129.html

Good luck.

Dennis