Uh oh, I have one of these "it worked a few days ago, but now it's messed up" problems!

I'll try to describe the problem and what I've already done to try to debug it.

PROBLEM:
- When I record a VCR tape into the 953 and out thru firewire into the PC using Premiere Pro capture, I get audio clipping (nasty).


WHEN:
- It occurs when I record different VCR tapes.
- It sometimes happens in the same spot on one particular tape right at a point when the (old) VHS camera stopped recording one thing and then started recording something else. There's noticable snow and rolling of the video on the tape at this point (when viewed on TV).
- It sometimes occurs when I press "stop" and then "play" on the VCR.
- It can occur when I unplug and plug in the VCR cable into the 953 while recording.

- If I'm in capture mode, I can monitor this clipping by doing any one of the above.


WHAT's WEIRD:
** If I record the VCR -> 953 (DV tape), AND I listen thru the 953 headphones, I hear NO CLIPPING!
- What I do hear is the normal buzz of plugging in a cable. I get no discernable sounds when I press "play"/"stop" or during the recorded stuff (possibly some faint clicks).

** If I then capture that tape, I GET THE CLIPPNG!


DEBUGGING: So here's what I've done for debugging so far... I'll also put what I'm still want to try...
- Tried different VCR tapes (still clipped)
- Film something using 953, capture with Premiere Pro (no clipping)
- Switched from A/C power to battery on 953 (no change, still clipped)
- VCR->953, listened to recording via 953 headphones (no clipping)
- Capture above recording (now on 953 tape) (Clipping)


WANT TO TRY:
- Take the above 953 tape and capture on different computer.
- Try different capture software.


I SUSPECT:
- Problem with the VCR->953 cable
- Problem with capture software
- Problem with 1394 card or firewire cable
- I'm praying it's not a problem with the camera.


It's just so weird that I can record the VCR to 953 tape, and not hear clipping thru the 953 headphones. It's only when I capture that tape that the buzz of plugging in a cable turns into a series of clips!


NOTE: All was well about 5 days ago when I captured a 2 hour VCR tape with no clipping (VCR->953->PC).

Wow, I hope I explained this well! If anyone has any ideas or questions, fire away!


Thanks!
Lisa W.

PS. CLIPS look like this in Sound Forge: |_| |_| |_|

Lisa,
If you can record your analog steam to DV tape and it is ok, then most likely the camcorder is working fine. There is no other conversion in the camera when transferring DV to the PC.

The DV stream coming from the camcorder is interleaved audio and video. In the PC, the capture software can do a couple of things with it:

1. Capture it as a Type 1 AVI. The audio/video (DV) stream is placed into an AVI wrapper and stored as a .AVI file on the hard drive.

2. Capture it as a Type 2 AVI. The capture software copies the interleaved audio stream into a second, independent audio stream, matches it to the interleaved DV stream, places it in an AVI wrapper and stores it as a .AVI file on the hard drive.

I'm not certain what codecs and hardware on the PC that the capture software uses to create the second audio stream. But, it seems to me that this is where to start.

You can select Type 1 AVI if Premiere has that option and see if that is better. Or, you could use Windows Movie Maker 2 to capture. It captures as Type 1. That would tell you if the Premiere capture is mucking up the audio in the Type 2 file.

Or, you can try another DV capture program to capture a Type 2 file. WinDV is a free program that does quite well at capturing either a Type 1 or Type 2 file.

Guy, whew, it's real nice to hear you think the camera is ok!

I'm going to try a few things today along the lines you suggested. I'll report back here.

Do you happen to know how one finds out all the codecs installed on a system? It's always nice to know what you're working with and what may not be necessary to have installed.

Thanks!
Lisa W

To see your codecs, both audio and video, go to Control Panel/System/Hardware/Device Manager/Sound, Video and Game Controllers. I don't think you'll find anything there that will tell you much, though. If you do, let us know. We are all learning, too.

Well, I did four tests, and all still produce the clipping. Here's what I did:

1) Tried capturing using different computer with Premiere Pro. Still clipped.

On that same computer:
2) Captured using WinDV, Type 1. Still clipped.
3) WinDV Type 2. Still clipped.
4) Captured using Windows Movie Maker high quality (WMV). Still clipped.

Interestingly, when looking at the audio wave for each recording, the clips are slightly different. They always occur in the same spot of the tape, but the number and spacing of the clipped peaks vary by small amounts.

Now, if the problem wasn't on the tape, wouldn't the clips be varied more in where they occur?

Could their be something wrong with my firewire connection on the camera? For the above tests, I used a different cable than yesterday.

The only constants in all this are:
- the camera
- the DV tape I used
- source to that DV tape is VHS
- the operationg system
- the hardware method of transfer (firewire)

Ugh.

I plugged the camera into my TV just to make extra sure it didn't clip out of the camera. It didn't. (last night I had done this check using headphones.

I haven't looked at codec stuff yet.

Guy, since I only hear the clipping using the digital out of the camera and not with the analog out... would this be a clue?

Thanks.
Lisa W.

Oh Lisa! You give us such wonderful problems to solve!

Ok, let me tell you what I'm thinking. If the DV out audio is clipped, then the input audio is probably too high a volume for the camcorder. It may sound ok on the headphones, but analog is more tolerant of over drive than digital. So, I need to know if you have changed anything on the VCR to increase the audio volume into the cam? You are coming straight from the AV outputs on the VCR to the cam, or are you going through an amplifier? Or, have you changed the audio on the cam from Auto into Manual (AGC) or Manual (No AGC)?

Guy... I'm glad you're so excited about this! My husband and I are having some fun too because we're racking our brains...

I just read your above post and I'm going to do some tests with the audio input settings. But I wanted to just post here 2 screens shots of the clips.

What's unusual abou them is that the clipped peaks are all down, possibly meaning that somewhere there is a massive data drop to zero. But, hey, what do I know!

The first picture is of a section of clips. The 2nd is a zoomed in mixed group of clips.

I'll letcha know the outcome of audio signal testing.

Lisa W.

zoomed

Lisa,
I went back and reread your posts. If I understand correctly, you are capturing the analog VHS to DV tape in the 953. Then, you are capturing the DV tape to PC.

You need to make sure you have turned the DV Out menu option off after you have captured the VHS to DV tape. DV Out being on in normal video capture mode may cause degradation.

BTW, did you know you could capture directly to the PC through the cam? You don't need to capture to DV tape first.

Hey Guy... reporting back.

Just did a test. In this test, as before, the connections were VHS->953->firewire->PC->Premiere Pro using the DV OUt of the 953.

- I plugged ONLY the video plug from VHS to DV and monitored the capture (DV out) into Premiere. I used neither audio plug. (made sure they weren't touching anything)

- I still got the Clips! No audio from the VCR was even plugged in!

Whattdya think of that one?


Lisa W.

PS. I turned off DV Out to capture from DV tape to PC. Still clips.

PPS. I originally found out this problem when I was just using the 953 to capture my VHS directly to the PC. I only recorded to DV Tape to see if the clipping would be recorded to tape. It was.

PPPS. This clipping can also occur when pressing Stop/Play in the VCR.

PPPPS. Hubby just tested the VCR->953 cable and it looks fine, no shorts.

Here's another clue:

When I was experimenting above with just having the video plugged in and not the audio, I noticed something weird.

On the PC:
During capture, I'm monitoring the video. I can see the picture that's coming off the DV Tape.
When the clilpping noise occurs, the video on the PC looks fine.

On the 953 Screen:
BUT, if I monitor the video via the camera's LCD screen, whenever I hear the clipping noise, the camera screen flickers, bows a little and all around looks abnormal.

I have the volume meter displayed on the camera screen and even that distorts when this clipping noise occurs.


This coupled with the fact that the clips occur when pressing Stop/Play on the VCR and the fact that the clips occur with NO audio connects...seems like it may be something electrical in the camera that's causing glitches in the audio coming out of it.

Wow, this is complicated! Luckily, we have lots of clues. Now to figure it all out!

My next test tomorrow will be to try another VCR and possibly go to Fry's for another VCR->953 cable. Just to weed out possibilities.

Thanks guy for your brain!
Lisa W.

Wow! What about the cables from the VCR to the cam?

Hehe, at least we're thinking alike...WAIT, could be a conspiracy! Don't let Homeland Security find out.

I'm really at a loss here. It could be the cam. Things audio/video are affected sometimes by the AC power supply...ground loops and all.

Is this problem occurring on all your VHS tapes or just one?

http://avicodec.duby.info/

From the web site:

AVIcodec v1.1 - Free multimeda files analyser :
Gives detailled information, especially the codecs needed to play
the file, and where to download those codecs if they are missing
on your system.

It also lists what codecs are installed on your system.

Good luck.

Dennis Vogel

A new afternoon, but the same old problem.

I tried a different VCR today, same clipping.

Just to clear up a few things, here's some answers for questions above:
I had started this with the camera's A/C power supply but ruled that out when the problem still happens using the camera on battey power.

It happens with all VHS tapes. It also happens with only video but no audio plugged into the camera from the VCR. It also happens when just pressing STOP and PLAY on the VCR.

During this new-VCR test, I had the camera turned on and set to VCR mode to get ready to record the A/V input. When I plugged the cable in from the VCR (already plugged into VCR), I saw the same strange effect on the camera LCD screen that I described above (flickered, bowed). Weird.

This will be my next test today. Gonna go to Fry's and get another cable to go from the VCR to the camera. If the problem is still there, I guess the cam is defective. That's a drag!

Something I noticed when I first got the camera: I had recorded some test stuff the first day I got it and then used this same cable to connect the cam to my TV input to watch what I recorded.

I noticed back then that if I moved the end of the cable that was plugged into the TV, I'd get some artifacting on the TV (like a bad connection). This may be a clue that this prob existed the day I got the cam, I just didnt know it back then.

So, either the cable is bad or the hole in the cam that it gets plugged into is bad.

I'll report back here after the new cable test. It's the last thing to try... luck is needed!

Thanks guys!
Lisa W.