Hello everyone, I said I would give my opinion of whatever camcorder I bought, so here goes. I picked the Hitachi DZ-MV580A over the Panasonic GS 120 and 200 for one reason only and that’s because I want to pop the finished DVD in my player with as little fuss as possible and I liked the thumbnail and instant access features of the DVD. I can’t tell you how many times I wanted to record something only to find the tape was in a spot I didn’t want to record over. The DVD eliminates that. Also the burning of MiniDV onto DVD from what I hear on this board is more work than I want.

The only comparisons I can make are with a GS-70 I had for about 30 minutes before it broke and my 6 year old VHS-C.

Size. DVD is a little bigger and heavier than 120, but not much.
Handling. A matter of opinion, but I have no problem operating DVD.
Picture quality. Light years better than VHS-C and comparable with my 30 minutes of MiniDV from GS-70. Both were played back via S-Video on newish Sony 32" TV. Won’t argue if people say the MiniDV is better, but I can’t see it. The one DVD-R I recorded directly on camcorder at fine setting, played back via DVD player had outstanding sharpness.
Low light quality. Comparable with ¼" CCD VHS-C and much better than GS-70.
Color quality. GS-70 is noticeably better than DVD, but not by as much as DVD’s better low light quality.
Ease of burning onto permanent DVD. Oh my god. This is where we run into trouble. The GS-120 is less expensive than the DVD, but I figured by the time I bought editing software and a DVD recorder the price would be the same or even higher. I don’t mind the greater cost of DVD’s over MiniDV media because it’s not much and presumabley so much less work it’s worth it. Hitachi says they recommend Maxell media only. Period, end of story, according to their tech support. Problem is Maxell is not easily available and if one shops around one can find Panasonic RAM and all sorts of DVD-R at much lower prices. So far the Pana RAM records and plays back fine, but I have to use a S-Video for play back. I’m batting 0-3 in burning from RAM to Sony DVD-R. Hitachi’s response is use Maxell only. I can buy Optodisc DVD-R online for less than $1.50 each as opposed to Maxell for $8.00 each. It’s worth a try, but the incompatability leaves me, at this point, unhappy with Hitachi or maybe the whole DVD idea. I’ve been seeing Panasonic DVD RAM online for under $8.00 each, thats about the same as MiniDV. I’m thinking of buying a used RAM compatible DVD player, but with Hitachi’s position of nothing other than Maxell, that’s risky.

To sum up… Many people on this board told me to stick with MiniDV. If I can figure out how to record onto permanent DVD economicaly, I will be quite happy with the Hitachi. I just don’t want to have to pay $8.00 for 30 minutes of DVD-R and still have to go through the effort of recording on DVD RAM first, edit then burn. If I can’t and I’m doomed to playing DVD RAM via S-Video, I say BUYER BEWARE!
Hopes this helps someone. Thanks for all your time.

Marcjacal, thanks for your candid comments. It looks like you spent some time writing it up. Being a Digital8 and MiniDV fan who has learned how to burn DVD's I have shied away from even looking at the DVD camcorders.

My editing does take up a lot of time but that's because I enjoy doing it. The time it takes to transfer or burn doesn't bother me as I get up and go do something else.

Rich

I just finished a review of a Panasonic DVD camcorder and they mentioned many of the same limitations.

- DVD-RAMs that cannot play on most DVD players; you must copy files to a computer then author a real (my term) DVD.

- No menu structure or, consequently, random access to video on RAM DVDs; only sequential playback in the order the video was recorded.

- DVD-Rs can be played on a DVD player but only record slightly less than 30 minutes of video.

I hope people research these cams well before they purchase.

Good luck.

Dennis

Now if the movies is already in DVD format,
when you need to edit them, then you have to recompress them right ?
if so, you'll lose quality. Now tell me if I'm wrong about this.

Some editors will allow you to edit MPEG-2 files. I don't know how well they do it. Sony Vegas Movie Studio has the ability, and I'm sure other programs.

Rich

Hi all:

I need to buy a digital camcorder but do not know whether to go with miniDV or DVD format. My first inclination when I became aware of these two choices was that anything placed on tape would not archive well. It seems to me that DVD would be more "permanent". Then, I began reading that miniDV seems to be the format of choice these days particularly because more editing software is available. Viewing movies on my pc and putting them on DVD is a must for me so please bear this in mine when making suggestions. I have a one year old Dell with a DVD player so I'm not even sure if it will read the camcorder DVD. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance to all you fine people for any advice.

This question is asked every once in a while, you can find more information if you search the forum.

Here is the basic information:

DVD is more expensive (both the media and the cameras)
DVD is not good for editing, for different reasons.
DVD is not as good quality as DV.
DVD is convinent if you do not want to edit your video, because it will play in a DVD player.

MINI DV is good for editing, it is better quality, the files are bigger, the tapes and cameras are cheaper, and it is the standard for video editing.

Most people, including me, go with MINI DV. It is the best choice unless you are not going to edit the video and just want convinence.

As for storing the video, I am not sure either way is good for long term storage (15 yrs+?), but both should last at least that long. It also depends on how well the camcorder writes the DVD, hopefully it would write it well enough that it will last.

This is not always the case. Some DVD cams use DVD-RAM discs which are not compatible with as many set-top DVD players as the DVD + and - formats. Also, many DVD cams use 8 cm discs (as opposed to the 12 cm discs most of us are familiar with) which will only record about 30 minutes on a side. Be sure to check the specs before you buy a DVD camcorder so you won't be surprised or disappointed.

Good luck.

Dennis

Wait and see about these new Blue Laser DVD Cameras....

Thanks for all the quick replies to my question. It sounds like there is nothing wrong, and probably lots right about going with the mini DV.

Can someone please tell me however
1) whether I can transfer the movies from the mini DV to a CD or DVD on my pc?
2) Is there any quality or resolution, etc. "lost" in the transfer?
3) what software I should look for at my local stores to do this or will it come with the camera?

Thanks again!

You can transfer directly from MiniDV to DVD using a stand alone DVD recorder. But my experience with using a computer is that you are opening a can of worms trying to use it. It is NOT a transfer from MiniDV to a DVD. There are several time consuming steps that need to be done in a PC that don't need to be done in a DVD recorder.

There is always some quality lost when compressing DV from your camcorder to Mpeg2 that is needed so that it will fit on a DVD. When people say that DVD video is not as good as DV, that is true. But there is no way to avoid it. Either capture directly to DVD using a DVD camcorder or capture DV and compress it to Mpeg2 and put that on a DVD. It is 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. At least that is the way I see it. Probably the MiniDV camcorder camera section will be of a little higher quality than the DVD camcorder camera section so it might have a slight advantage?

Dave

DaveC is right, if your end media is a DVD, the final video will be limited to DVD quality. But with Mini DV you can also have a higher quality backup (I burn the raw AVI files to DVD as well), and it is better to edit with a high quality file (you probably won't notice a difference if you are only cropping and moving the clips though).

OK. I must admit I am getting a little confused here. But that's ok since I didn't know ANYTHING about this topic as of yesterday! With your help, I will get educated!

My goal is to record some family moments and be able to distribute them to relatives via DVD as well as watch them myself with the ability to edit them first. Without transfer to something like DVD, don't you have to hook up the camcorder to the tv somehow to view the movie? Is that what most people do? I mean do you simply record on the miniDV tapes and hook up the camera to the tv to watch the movies as they were originally recorded? If I use a DVD recorder, I am imagining I have to hook up the camcorder to the recorder and make an exact copy ie editing is not possible this route, right? If I want to do any editing, isn't using a pc essential? Is this what Dave is talking about when he mentions "compressing to Mpeg2" and putting it on DVD? I thought I understood from previous replies that the miniDV is the way to go for editing and I thought there were lots of software programs that made this easy and not the "can of worms" DaveC mentions.

That "can of worms" is just if you want to put the footage as it was shot onto DVD from miniDV. If you want to edit, then you need to go through a computer anyway. If you just wanted to put raw footage onto DVD, you could do it without a PC, however.

As to editing: yes, it is far easier to edit from miniDV than DVD. You need a camera (obviously), a FireWire card and cable, and software. The camera will probably come with some software - you can use that, or buy another piece. There are some very popular options near the $100 mark, and there's also stuff up to around $1000. There's also some free stuff that's quite popular... Avid FreeDV, or something.

From there, you need a DVD author to take the editing footage, comrpress it, and burn it to a DVD. Obviously, you need a DVD burner for this... and that will probably come with some software. There's also software available to buy for this step, the only example I know of is Adobe Encore, but I'm sure there are other good options too.

It's not super-difficult, it's just MORE difficult than going straight from miniDV to DVD through a stand-alone DVD recorder.

My two cents:

Making DVD videos is a great distribution method... putting your video after editing onto a DVD to share with family and friends. Otherwise, if you left it in the computer then it could only be viewed with that computer! Or, you could dump it onto a DATA DVD, which would not play in a stand alone player and only hold 20 minutes of the full quality (unencoded, not lossily compressed) video. I'd consider this "data DVD" a backup of your work. Also, after editing you could send the video back to the camorder and record on a (new, additional) MiniDV tape for a tape backup at the full quality. A data DVD holds 4.7GB, and a MiniDV tape holds 13GB.

I'd make these data storage (MiniDV tape or data DVD) before the lossy compression encoding step (which is required to get the MPEG2 which is required for making a VIDEO DVD).

Video DVDs are very universal and really "the way to go" to show your stuff. But don't keep ONLY a video DVD of a valuable rare video... keep the edited "full quality before MPEG2 encoding" video on a MiniDV tape or several data DVDs.

You can make the Video DVD several ways. DaveC has had frustration with doing the MPEG2 encoding on a computer, then authoring (laying out menus, etc.) then burning a DVD with a computer based DVD recorder. This is the most flexible, but takes some time and a powerful computer. An alternative is to use a DVD recording appliance. Feed it the edited DV (over Firewire if the recording unit has Firewire input) and the standalone DVD recorder will do the MPEG2 encoding "live" and make the DVD for you this way. (And once you have a good DVD this way, duplicating it with the PC and a DVD burner in the PC is easy).

So... you can preserve the fullest quality using the MiniDV tapes (and view them by hooking up the camcorder or computer to a TV) = inconvienent, or keep the MiniDV tape in a safe place and view the video on a video DVD (pretty good quality, and very convienent to use).

If you use a small DVD recording camcorder, then you lose the ability to losslessly edit and duplicating the video DVD is more difficult, and those little DVDs are hard to find and expensive.

__________________
Sony HDV camcorder info (FX1, CX7, HC3 HC5, SR1/3/5/10, SR11, SR12, TG1, UX1, Z1) -> http://www.SonyHDVinfo.com