What is the general opinion on third-party brand vs. official camcorder batteries? I am looking for options for my Canon GL2, specifically. I really don't want to have to plunk down $100 for the official highest capacity battery (BP-945).

I have been directed to http://www.sabahoceanic.com/ , but does anyone have any other tips?

I've bought 6 within the last year and 1 was a dud. I didn't check the dud battery fully when I 1st bought it. I stuck it in the camera and it worked so I thought it was good. Later that month when I used it at a wedding it died suddenly after a hr of use.

My advice is by the knock-off batteries but check them thoroughly.

There is the rare possibility that any battery can explode. Some battery designs are more prone to this than others. Being a name brand battery isn't always a good indicator that a battery isn't one of those that might possibly explode. Sometimes even name brand stuff does this.

These things are very rare but it does happen. This is the one thing you might be concerned about when it comes to batteries. BTW camera companies buy their batteries from a company that makes batteries for the most part. The only thing you can do is to check for reports of explosions on the web. In the past there was no good way of finding out these things without making a trip to the periodicals section of a good library.

I buy lots of aftermarket batteries. I generally try to check about a retailer since it's often hard to know exactly what batteries are being sold. If you find a dealer that is known to sell lots of batteries that don't have problems then you shouldn't have any problems.

Like I said, I have all sorts of batteries from a number of manufacturers and I've never had any problems with explosions. I have had batteries that really weren't all that good. The worst ones I have were actually Panasonic but I strongly suspect I used a charger that was too powerful for them.

If you want to know more about batteries than you will ever really need to know I suggest you look at this web site.

Li-ion batteries do not explode, at least I have never been able to find a reliable report of the battery exploding however they have been reported to get very hot, hot enough to reach 700 degrees which could in some cases being more dangerous than exploding.

The reference given seems to be a bit outdated. It states "Similarly, Li-ion batteries for defense applications are being produced that far exceed the energy density of the commercial equivalent. Unfortunately, these super-high capacity Li-ion batteries are deemed unsafe in the hands of the public. Neither would the general public be able to afford to buy them" There are actually several Li-ion battery chemistries used but even the consumer Li-ion batteries can be dangerous if you try to cut them open or puncture them.

Most camcorders today use the Li-ion batteries, as well as cellphones and a lot of laptops.




Rich

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I realized the info was a couple of years old but still there is a great deal of useful information there. There's probably more info there than is really needed in fact.

I'm afraid you are just plain wrong about lithium batteries not exploding. There are warnings all over the net about this issue. There is this warning about batteries used in Nikon cameras. Note the mention of the problem of cell phone batteries exploding in 2004. There is a story about the lithium batteriy exploding in a cell phone on this web site. You can find this quote in a ZDNet article on this web site:

"Lithium-ion batteries, used in most cell phones, can overheat in certain circumstances--with a short circuit, for example. If the temperature rises slowly, the battery case may melt. If it rises too rapidly, however, it can generate sufficient pressure to create a small explosion."

In fact there is a mountain of evidence that lithium batteries can indeed explode if manufactured without safeguards against these problems. You might want to go through the links on this Google search. There's just no doubt the possiblity of an explosion exists though it is a rare experience especially after the liablity problems incurred after the 2004 cell phone incidents.

Well, I have about 40 years experience using primary and secondary batteries in my hobbies and over 20 years of on and off experience with various Federal agencies. What you presented was not evidence but some facts mixed with myths and irresponsible reporting by some web sites.

I consider your first reference this warning about batteries used in Nikon cameras. to be irresponsible reporting, even on poster stated "Exploding batteries - I've been trying to trace down the origin of what appears to be the urban legend of the exploding non-OEM batteries in Nikon D70's. Funny thing is, there seems to be no way to trace this back to Nikon."

The next reference is titled "Battery explosion injures student" but if you read the article it shows The cell phone was being charged near the woman's bed when the fire started, said Rich Fujita, director of college relations. "Her roommate said the flames jumped about 18 inches in the air and caught the mattress on fire," he said. This is what I consider to be another case of irresponsible reporting.

So all I can say is what I said earlier "Li-ion batteries do not explode, at least I have never been able to find a reliable report of the battery exploding however they have been reported to get very hot, hot enough to reach 700 degrees which could in some cases being more dangerous than exploding."

I guess it depends on what you consider to be a primary or secondary explosion or intense heat, they are related.



Rich

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Are you serious? I don't know what you consider a reliable report but IMO Ziff Davis, which publishes magazines such as Computer Shopper, PC, and several other top computer magazines, is an excellent source of information.

I said that this was a very rare occurence but I've heard it from dozens of sources. I don't know what else you might find that would be more reliable. Unless you've had it happen to you I don't think you will find a more reliable source than ZD. They are the leading source of computer industry news and have been since the mid 1980's. I'm sure everyone on this board has seen their magazines.

The fact that you have not had it happen to you or anyone else you know is not IMO proof that it doesn't happen. It is a rare occurence which would make the chances of it happening to you or anyone you know not likely. I certainly use them without fear but I do believe it is possible for an explosion to occur. I'm certainly more inclined to believe the dozens of reports I've seen in the media about these explosions than the experiences of a single person.

If you want proof from an expert in such things I'll be glad to ask my son. He's a senior majoring in physics and electrical engineering at a major university and also doing research for the defense department. He is very much involved with this field and I'm certain he knows the truth about this.

As for you comments about the poster who suggested that these batteries could not be traced back to Nikon, I believe you should take notice that no one claimed the batteries were made by Nikon. That poster needs to get a clue. The story was about "knockoff lithium batteries that aren’t actually made by your digital camera’s manufacturer" and not Nikon batteries. It was aftermarket batteries being used in a Nikon camera that caused the problem or at least that's what was said.

The evidence that these explosions have occured is mountainous. To assume that every single story is a fake is almost hysterical.

There is a news story from another reputable news source, InfoWorld, which you can read on this web site. The report says, "I spoke with a few experts in the field of electrochemistry who told me the danger is real."

I can't understand why you dismiss so many reports from reputable sources. I certainly don't. If you don't believe reports from sources of this nature then you must not believe anything from any news source.

Yes, I am serious.

But I am not going into a long discussion on the subject. I will state "Li-ion batteries do not explode, at least I have never been able to find a reliable report of the battery exploding however they have been reported to get very hot, hot enough to reach 700 degrees which could in some cases being more dangerous than exploding. The intense heat could cause other materials to explode."

Yes, I read the "Warning: Exploding batteries" article by Infoworld which you referenced....

Ziff Davis has been around probably 70 or 80 years. They use to have a variety of magazines including photography magazines. Have read them on occasion for 40(?) years.

You can get sugar, baking powder, flour, coal, bleach, egg yolks, soybeans and many common items to explode under the proper conditions.

And you can burn dynamite and C-4 explosives without them exploding. (I have never burned dynamite, but I have seen C-4 burned).

Oxygen Generators do not explode, but they brought that airliner down over the Florida Everglades about 15 years ago, but all most of the news reported that they exploded.

Ask your son, but read or send him all of what crazy Poncho said....

I would prefer to see some lab test reports of what conditions were used to get Lithium Ion batteries to explode. I could be wrong, and I will admit it when I see real data. Here is one test which I consider to be reliable "Sony 18650 Li-ion Battery Test Results, Ivan Galysh, Gil Dutchover, Jan 15, 2004" http://www.stensat.org/Docs/battery_test_results.pdf however, no explosion....

Lithium Ion batteries can be dangerous. Read the camcorder manual and follow their recommendations.




Rich

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I certainly questioned the validity of the press reports myself for quite a while. It was when I saw reports from Panasonic in particular that I started to believe the news reports. I saw a warning about explosions on Pansonic's web site concerning after market batteries that were falsely labelled as being Panasonic batteries. At this point I have no doubt that there is the slight possibility of an explosion. I'd put the odds are somewhere above a million to one but I do believe it has happened because of reports I've seen from reputable sources like Panasonic.

You can totally discount a large number of reports of seperate incidents but I won't and I don't think most people do especially when taken with warnings from a source like Panasonic.

How about a warning from Panasonic about the possiblity of their Li-Ion batteries exploding? That's hardly a yellow journalism exaggeration.

For you to categorically state they do not explode is just amazing to me. Unless you can produce lab tests to the contrary I'm certainly going to believe the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Well, be amazed. You have not provided a mountain of evidence.

OK, you have provided a valid document in the Panasonic .PDF reference, titled "SAFETY PRECAUTIONS FOR THE LITHIUM ION BATTERY PACK. And it does state "Misusing the battery may cause the battery to get hot, explode, or ignite and cause serious injury. Be sure to follow the safety rules listed below:". But that statement is a far cry from the other references you cited earlier with titles like "Battery explosion injures student" and "Warning: Exploding batteries". But I have to wonder did Panasonic add the word explode to protect themselves in a law suit? Were they able to get a Lithium Ion battery to explode? If so what did their laboratory test determine? What are the actual odds of this type of battery exploding? What would a jury conclude in a trial? You put the odds above a million to one. I don't know what the odds are but I believe the danger of injury or damage from a fire is far greater than from explosion.

But I have not yet seen any actual reliable test reports regarding exploding Lithium Ion batteries. It all has been perpetual myths, legends and stories.

I was an electronic hobbyist for years, was a radar technician for a while, attempted to repair TV's and the fear of electrical shock was always in the back of my mind. But I received far more injuries from burns and was never electrocuted.

Do you remember the law suit a few years ago when the woman won the case against McDonalds because she burned her crotch when she spilled coffee in her car? That happened here in New Mexico USA! I've eaten at the actual McDonald! (Sometimes it does not take much to excite me). But what was not touted in the headlines was that the McDonald's had been in violation of local city of Albuquerque food service ordinances a few times in the distant past, one of which was food temperature. I wondered how that piece of evidence swayed the jury. So can we conclude that coffee can be dangerous? Will coffee at 180 degrees spilled on my crotch be more dangerous than 180 degree tea or water or soup?

I drifted off topic....



Rich

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Like I said it was a document from Panasonic that got my attention about this issue. I certainly know the way the media does things. One report gets made and it gets cited by 1000 other reports even if it gets totally discredited.

But I saw Panasonic talking about after market batteries that were falsely labeled as Panasonic actually exploding on cameras. That got my attention and convinced me that the stories being circulated were likely true or at least some of them.

I've been looking for that document since we started this discussion. I'm going to keep looking for it. Hopefully I can find it.

Finally! It wasn't Panasonic that put out the warning about counterfeit batteries. It was Canon. Read the warning on this web site for further information.

Here is the basic info from that web site:

The purpose of this document is to notify you that counterfeit lithium-ion battery packs are being used with Canon brand Digital cameras and Digital camcorders. Canon recently discovered these counterfeit lithium-ion battery packs on sale, being passed off as Canon genuine lithium-ion battery packs. Canon also learned of an explosion which appears to have been caused by one of these counterfeit lithium-ion battery packs.

Because these counterfeit lithium-ion battery packs are often not equipped with certain protective devices meeting Canon's and industry's basic quality standards, using or recharging these counterfeit lithium-ion battery packs could cause your camera or camcorder to malfunction, or lead these battery packs to overheat, leak liquids, ignite or explode. In the worst case, this could not only damage your camera or camcorder, but also result in fire, burns and/or injuries (including loss of eyesight). Accordingly, these counterfeit lithium-ion battery packs should not be used.

I suppose I confused which of my two cameras I read this about but it is what convinced me that there are explosions happening because of poorly made lithium batteries. Canon reports a single instance of an explosion as a result of using those counterfeit batteries. I still think this is a VERY rare occurence.

Web page:
http://www.valence.com/SafetyVideo.asp



Rich

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Pretty impressive video. It pretty much confirms what my views have been IMO. The real threat to humans has been fire and burning chemicals that were spread all over a person from a minor explosion. My understanding is that the explosions that we have been talking about are really minor as far as explosions go. No limbs get severed and no projectiles penetrate on a large scale.

Powerful explosions could happen I suppose but I believe the main source of concern is that burning hot chemicals are instantly blasted all over a person's body causing widespread and devastating burns. I believe this is pretty much in line with your stated view that burns are the main concern with batteries.

Having burning chemicals blasted all over your body is going to cause severe damage. I believe some people have been very seriously injured as a result of the explosions we have been discussing but again I believe these are very rare events and likely the result of a manufacturing defect rather than a design flaw. It really makes it harder to predict when an event of this nature might happen which pretty much stinks.

Life is dangerous I suppose. I'm not going to be losing sleep worrying about a battery exploding on me. It's possible but so are car battery explosions. It's just impossible to escape danger on this planet and likely on any other known planet as well.

That wasn't the video I was looking for, but I guess that one is good enough. But every situation will be different. But that company manufactures what they claim are "Non Exploding" batteries so that demo might have been slanted towards showing the worse case of "exploding" batteries.

My first question to the average person would be, how many cells and how large are the cells in your camcorder? Their example used a military battery pack with 24 cells, your camcorder most likely uses 2 cells and your cells were probably much smaller.

My second question in regards to the test conditions of the demo video would be what would be your greatest concern if you were a tourist making "Home Movies" with your family and your camcorder battery was struck by a 5.56 round?



Rich

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