For best quality video; you need to transfer MiniDV or Digital8 video from your camcorder to your computer with IEEE 1394; commonly called FireWire or i.Link. USB will not work well with most camcorders to transfer video as they output USB 1 not "High Speed" USB2. USB is normally used for transferring still images and web cam features. Most editing programs will not transfer with USB; if they do it will not be the best possible video quality.

The only MiniDV camcorders I am aware of which should output video at "High Speed" USB 2.0 are:

Canon Optura 500 (Same as the Canon MVX35i)
Canon Optura 60
JVC GR-DZ7US
Panasonic PV-GS35
Panasonic PV-GS150
Panasonic PV-GS180
Panasonic PV-GS250
Panasonic PV-GS300
Panasonic PV-GS320
Panasonic PV-GS400
Panasonic PV-GS500
Panasonic NV-GS75 (PAL)
Panasonic NV-GS140 (PAL)
Panasonic NV-GS280 (PAL)

These threads may help explain some more:

Computer DV FAQ Part 1- Read First for setting up your PC to capture video

Opinion - Computer requirements for video use

Easy Capture Program

If you doubt that you need Firewire/i.Link/IEEE-1394 then you might want to read through these Posts/Threads:

Help please! - Trouble with pixellated footage
TRV33 and computer transfer issues
HC40 Capture trouble
Firewire vs USB
GS120; Cannot transfer video to PC
usb firewire
Unable to capture Video to My Hard Disk
MiniDV SCD107 & Ulead Video Studio 8
analog to digital passthrough quality in HC30
Transfer video from tape to HardDisk
i've ditched usb
Panasonic NV-MX500 novice - capture problems

Rich

Poll: FireWire Experience

List of Video Editing Software

MiniDV vs DVD camcorders vs Hard Drive vs Memory Cards

Rich

OK I am curious as to why all the negativity about using USB2 to transfer film data. With it having a larger bandwidth than firewire (480mbps compared to 400mbps) I cannot see why it would not be suitable.

I own a GS250 camera. I always used USB2 to download to the PC as I did not have a firewire cable. I was always happy with the downloaded media.

I recently bought a firewire cable to see if there really is a difference. I downloaded identical pieces of film from the camera, one via USB2 and one via firewire, I cannot detect any difference between the two.

Another reason I used USB2 was that the instruction manual that came with the GS250 said that to connect a firewire cable firstly switch off the PC connect the cable then switch on. Since I have no intention of doing that I simply plug the USB cable in and go from there as USB is hot swappable.

Are there any real technical reasons why firewire is superior to USB2???

Full MiniDV and Digital8 video which is called DV AVI (or D25) is recorded to tape at about 30 Megabits Per Second (Mbps) or about 13.5 GB per hour.

USB 1.1 has two speeds with a maximum transfer rate of 12 Mbps.

USB 2 "Low Speed" I believe has a maximum transfer rate of 1.5 Mbps.

USB 2 "Full Speed" has a maximum transfer rate of 12 Mbps.

USB 2 "Hi-Speed" has a maximum transfer rate of 480 Mbps.

IEEE 1394a has a maximum transfer rate of about 400 Mbps.

The problem is that most MiniDV camcorders and all Digital8 camcorders with USB do not output USB 2 "Hi-Speed" which means of the approximately 30 Mbps needed to be transferred only approximately 12 Mbps gets transferred. What that does to your quality varies, it may have no sound, the image size is reduced to approximately 480*320 (or smaller) instead of the NTSC standard 720*480, the video may stutter, skip or have large pixel blocks.

Not all USB has a bandwidth of the theoretical 480 mbps, only "Hi-Speed" USB. Even though USB 2.0 Hi-Speed has a theoretical max raw data rate slightly higher than FireWire, the typical sustained transfer rates are about the same, because FireWire is a more efficient protocol to use in audio and video environments. In fact, in most cases, FireWire beats USB 2.0 Hi-Speed, albeit by a small margin. Very often it will be the computer or hard drive mechanism which limits the system performance more than the interface. But that is normally not the issue with transferring video.

You own one of the few camcorders that outputs "Hi-Speed" USB. In the over ten year history of several hundred MiniDV and Digital8 camcorders the GS250 was one of the first camcorders to output "Hi-Speed" USB 2 .

If everything is working properly then you would not see any difference because of the model camcorder you have and because your computer apparently has "Hi-Speed" USB 2.

You would have to ask Panasonic why they recommend that procedure. The Firewire protocol supports hot swapping.

1. The primary one would be in all cases regarding video is that you can not transfer DV AVI video from computer to camcorder which some people do for the purposes of archiving video.

2. FireWire allows peer-to-peer device communication, such as communication between a camcorder and a computer, to take place without using system memory or the CPU which may or may not be a factor.

3. You are limited in what software you can use to transfer from camcorder to computer. Most NLE's do not use USB. I do not consider that a major issue.

Rich

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FireWire Survey

Thanks for clearing all that up...

Plus, the transfers are purely digital. Only 0's and 1's are being transferred from the cam to your computer. As long as there are no dropped frames or other glitches the two files will be identical bit-for-bit. The transfer protocol won't make a difference.

Good luck.

Dennis

Hello members ,
Thank you so much for taking time in letting me know about the detailed information.
I will try buying a new IEEE cable.
If the issue still persists, I will let you know.
Thanks once again.
Jagannadh.

I'm interested in a harddisk drive camcorder (sony dcr sr100).

Apparently the camcorder stores in MPEG rather than DV format.

Also the camcorder appears to only have USB 2 interface.

all the write-ups I've been reading discuss the transfer of DV from tape to PC using FireWire.

Does the fact that the HDD camcorders transfer MPEG rather than DV make USB 2 a more suitable option? Or will I still run into the same problems.

thanks

Hard disk drive and memory card camcorders usually use USB to transfer the video because it can send the data at various rates as needed where a tape drive outputs the video data a one constant speed. So this thread only applies to MiniDV or Digital8 camcorders.

That is a matter of opinion and personal choices. These threads regarding hard drive and memory based camcorders may be of interest:

Editing Your MPEG2 Files, Shooting in Mixed Formats 05-02-2006
Sony DCR-SR100 first impressions 04-26-2006
Hard drive vs. tape camcorders 04-03-2006
Comparison test of nine MPEG2 cameras 02-24-2006
HDD vs tape 01-19-2006
Panasonic AV100 - General ? 01-03-2006

Rich

True, but you will be transferring MPEG-2 files, not DV, so this rule doesn't apply.You won't run into the same problems. You are copying MPEG-2 files like any other disk-to-disk file copy whereas a DV capture is a real time video stream that is being written to a file. Big difference. You could transfer MPEG-2 files from your cam at the slowest USB speed available and it would work fine. It would just take a lot longer to do it.

Good luck.

Dennis

Great info and I'm beginning to understand the problem. Since you titled the thread Firewire vs USB I will ask you to respond as respects Mini DVD camcorders to PC. Can you use USB or do we have the same problem?

Hugh

__________________
Hugh Campbell

I believe most people don't transfer video from DVD cams to their computers. DVD cams are designed to record video that can be played on a DVD player without needing any computer post processing. The DVD isn't simply an alternative recording medium. It is a self contained, playable DVD that has been authored in accordance to DVD standards.

But, if you do want to copy files off a DVD, you can use any method you wish. You are copying files hence any protocol will work, even lowly USB 1.0. As I mentioned before, the only question will be how long it takes to copy the files.

Good luck.

Dennis

It's not really a problem, it's a matter of understanding how it should be done. You could fill up the tank in an automobile by disconnecting the fuel line at the engine and dripping fuel with a nose dropper through the fuel line to the tank, or you could just pump fuel through the tank filler... (sorry for the analogy).

Firewire cards are cheap. If your computer can't handle a firewire card (some as low as $12) then you probably can't handle any real video.


All the Mini DVD camcorders I have seen only have USB to transfer the data, however that is because DVD camcorders transfer less data per minute than MiniDV because DVD camcorders encode or compress the data in the MPEG2 format but more important is that DVD is a random access device which can send the data in small segments as needed in a similar fashion as a hard drive or floppy disk whereas tape moves at a constant speed, it can not wait, you either get the data as it passes the read head, there is only one chance, there is no way to ask it to resend the data.

But it appears that on DVD camcorders many people just take the Mini DVD out of the camera and place it in a DVD reader in their computer. It would seem to be the ideal situation at first glance.



Rich

Hi! Hope you don't mind me borrowing the thread a little...

(Im swedish, so don't expect my grammar to be perfect =)

I bought the Sony DCR-HC46E yesterday.
I tried it out, captured a little photo and such. Since i lack Firewire, both cable and connection at the computer end, I used the stock usb cable.

Before i decided to get this camcorder I read that the video capturing resolution was about 0.7Mpix. But when i used the USB-Stream to transfer video to hd-drive, I got 320x240 (about 0.08Mpix?), which was quite disappointing. the image was quite grainy and not that smooth... (shoud add that I use 21" monitor @ 1024x768).

My question of course is: If i get the firewire pci-card and cable, will my video captures look better on the computer. Might add that I'll most likely will be using Vegas, for editing the video capture.

Thanks in advance!
//The beginner

Welcome Danneh!

Yes your video will look much better if transfered with Firewire.


Rich