A few months back I made a post about switching to HD and just wanted to say I finally made the move after owning the DVC30. I must say that the DVC30 has probably been one of the best purchases I've ever made on video equipment. It was the perfect stepping stone to go fully professional and learn real manual control. I'm moving on to the Canon XH-A1 but I will still participate and post videos here since I really enjoy the small group of users that participate on this board. Any DVC30 users interested in a summer theme video? Hope everyone is doing well, see you all on the board.

Hi 3CCD

Nice to hear that you upgraded to HD. I have also sold my DVC30 after a long time thinking. Some of it's features will probably never be as good on any other camcorder, for example the extremely slow zoom.
I will probably buy a Canon XH A1 sometime in the future when I can afford one.

As you have used both the DVC30 and the XHA1, I have a question. I really liked the low light performance of the DVC30 and I am woundering how the XHA1 behaves in low light compared to the DVC30. Perhaps hard to compare them as there are so many parameters to tweak on the Canon, but you might have an oppinion. I've seen some testcharts for both camcorders but it's hard to tell which one is the better one.

(I might come back for more comparing questions!)

Kind regards,

/Bo

Hey bov3,

Well I haven't received the XH-A1 yet, its actually being shipped as we speak and I should get it tomorrow. All I know is that I'm super excited about three native 16:9 CCDs at 1/3" a piece. I've seen some video of low lit conditions and it looks amazing. My guess is that this camcorder (and it should) will blow the doors off the DVC30 since it had three 1/4" CCDs. I think the DVC30's low light performance for its price is wonderful and still think its the best in its class. I will give updates on my findings/results. Bov3, lets us know what you do down the road! See you all on the board.

3CCD,

I am also looking to sell my DVC30 and purchase the canon A1, Adam Wilt did a good test betweene the XH A1, the DVX200 and the HVR-V1. For the type of video I like to shoot, I like the sharpness of the A1 vs the 24p of the DVX200. Both have more adjustments then I will ever use, and I don't see myself making movies, I like out door stuff. And from the article he said the 24F looks good. Check it out. Can't wait to see you new stuff from the A1.
http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_i...cleId=196602844

Yes, HD is nice but is practical for the average user at this time?

For myself low light performance and cam portability is very important to me. I wouldn't want to go bigger than DVC30.

SD DVD players are still the main stream. So down-converting HD to SD will be required for customers, friends and family.

1/3" 16:9 CCD has a surface area of about 30sq.mm with 1440x1080 resolution the pixel size is about 20sq.micrometer
1/4" 4:3 CCD has a surface are of about 19sq.mm with 720x480 resolution the pixel size is about 56sq.micrometer.

Looking at pixel size the DVC30's has about 3 times more surfaces area which will yield better low light performance.

My quest is to produce SD DVDs that look very good up-converted on a HDTV. Editing in SD is very easily done with even laptops. HD 1080 editing can bring the highest-end system to it's knees. HD 720 is easier on these systems. I would prefer to see HD 720p CCDs than 1080i.

In any case I'll be using the DVC30 for now and preview my editing on a Panasonic 720p HDTV LCD.

All the best to the HD camcorder users as I'm still enjoying the DVC30.

...Angelo

Hi

Angelo913, thanks, you saved me from doing the calculations!

I agree that each pixel on the CCD:s are a lot smaller than on the DV30. Performance is, hopefully, depending on more factors, the optics, the prism block, the processor etc. And also, test charts are test charts, they give a good indication but in the end real video and tweaking will show the qualitys of the camcorder.

I think it's fantastic to have 3CCD who have experience of the DVC30 and soon also the A1. Perhaps some kind of side by side comparison in the future?

Regards,

/Bo

I was one of the late bloomers on the DVC30, basically bought one of the last units coming off the production line after hearing and reading the rave reviews and comments from so many users.. For what I'm doing on a daily basis with my DVC30, it's a bit of an overkill but after 30 production videos completed this year, I certainly can't complain about the performance and quality of the finished product.. HD would be nice (keeping up with the Jones') but is it really required at this time? Sure, in the near future, everything will be HD so those jumping on this bandwagon in the early stages will have a definit heads up on the rest of us when it comes to be our turn to upgrade.

However, I had recently bought a Pana SDR-S150 and use that to shoot some content in 16:9 and what I'm seeing on the finished DVD and web format impressed me enough that I'm actually using it with the DVC30 at times.

I shoot with the DVC30 in the same locked down settings since we shoot at the same locations all the time, auto focus, Custom WB, some gain control for when we walk in with the camera instead of zoom, that I haven't even explored all that this camera can indeed do.. Am I remembering correctly that I can actually shoot 16:9 with the DVC30? I'm starting to like that format for certain things we do..

the short version is that I do love this camera and since it's less than a year old, I'm gonna be playing with it a whole lot more before moving onto something else..

I agree with the board here. For some its not quite practical to upgrade and technology will only get better so the choice becomes easier for those down the road. What drew me in was to have the option to shoot HD. The one thing that killed me about the DVC30 was not having true widescreen. Yeah you can work around it but it was something I wanted from the start and so with the A1 I get the native 16:9 CCDs plus progressive 30 and 24 fps. Yes its captured by an interlaced chip but puts out the right signal in the end. I hope to see more videos from the DVC30 user group here b/c I think the few users that participate make an awesome group. Its nice to hear from everyone since its been kinda quite on here...

I've been reading some reviews on the HXA1 and it looks to be the best bang-for-the-buck for HD video performance and for low light too! I''ll be looking forward to some low-light comparisons with the DVC30. I wouldn't expect the same level but if it's comparable, I would consider this to be the best HD cam under $3600. I haven't been happy with the low-light performance from other HD cams costing around $3600 or less.

Also do a comparison to the Image Stabilizer and Auto Focusing. Now I'm asking too many question that if they are very good reports, I might be checking out the HXA1 too!

...Angelo

That's something I need to work on is putting out some of those nature or event videos I occasionally shoot.. Put them up for critique and learn from what people have to say after seeing them.. it's one way to learn and develop.. Problem is that I've seen what a lot of you guys can do and it puts to shame anything I'm able to put forward in those regards.. But I'm working on it..

Update:

I haven't shot video but I've shot a few stills and one of them is posted below. The manual control over the image is unbelievable. There is so much to adjust and fine tune, its taking me 3-4 times the amount of time to get a shot to my liking. This is also do to the fact that I'm unfamiliar with the controls and I have to look as opposed to feel for the right buttons/controls. As far as DOF and in good lighting this camcorder is off the charts. Very sharp and vivid, beautiful images. Theres a lot of extra help for focusing, "peaking" and "magnification" which allows you to zoom up and have contrasty outlines on focused images since its hard on the view finder. The equivalent to "scene files" on your DVC30 is about 3-4 times as long with more options. So much to learn but more updates to come. Check out the link for the full resolution picture.



FULL RESOLUTION 1980 X 1080 STILL

The XH-A1 is twice the weight of a DVC30, so for long hand-held shots it maybe a problem for some.

Reading the XH-A1 review, quote:
But if the ultimate arbiter of focal quality is the shooter, the 2.7” LCD screen is probably not going to cut it, especially if you have aspirations for professional quality. The viewfinder is better, as the resolution is higher. A larger LCD, like the 3.5” LCD on the Sony HDR-FX7, would make the focusing process easier. For the tightest control, you’ll probably want to zoom all the way in, find the focus, and zoom out. A field monitor or studio monitor is an option for those with the budget.

Why did Canon go with a small 2.7" LCD? I can't run around with a field monitor. They should of had at least a 3.5" LCD. Manual focusing in low light is going to be a problem. That is the biggest problem with HD getting that "fantastic" sharp HD image recorded and you need a good display to do it right.

Looking at the Low Light performance on the charts 60lux looks very good BUT going to 15lux is gets very grainy. With HD cams I've seen worst and this little XH-A1 is doing a great job in low light but not better than the DVC30. In manual mode the DVC30 is grain free in my low light shots and since I shoot in uncontrolled lighting I still have the DVC30.

In any case 3CDD can give us more info and comparisons to the DVC30 like pros and cons between the 2 cams with Resolution aside.

Thanks....Angelo

Update:

I've still haven't shot any video but I will be planning some very shortly. I think I will shoot stock 16:9 SD 60i video to give a fair comparison to the DVC30 since these settings are the closest if not exact to what the DVC30 shoots. In low light this camcorder is definitely looking like a stronger performer but I cannot make a full conclusive comment since I haven't fully learned the controls. My good friend came over and the first comment out of his mouth when I handed the camcorder to him was how well the low light was and how incredible the optical image stabilization is. At full 20 times optical zoom the image is very steady if not perfectly still if you hold it just right. With some time I will post sample video and give my opinion in low light in SD mode.

As for size and weight this camcorder is much heavier and bigger. I really like this because it helps with hand held shots and it gives the camcorder a real robust and heavy duty feel. I would assume the average user won't like it as extend periods make your arm tired but its just something that doesn't bother me. It is a little front heavy due to the massive 20x lens but with the three dedicated ring for focus, zoom, and iris I love it. Iris is key since when you make large telephoto adjustments you loose a light in the process so immediate adjustment to the picture is made. I think what I will do is shoot video and then post a lengthy comparison of my likes and dislikes for those that are interested. I'm building a website right now so I will make another one for that or make a free website. Anyhow, if you have suggestions or want something specific reviewed just post here and I will try to incorporate it into the review. More updates to come!

There are basically 3 important factors I'm looking for OIS, Focusing and Low light Performance compared to the DVC30.

Since I do mostly handheld the image stabilizer (OIS) is my pet peeve with the DVC30, how does it compare to the XH-A1?

I would like to know how the well the auto focus is under all light conditions. Also, how well is it to manually focus with with the 2.7" display under different light conditions.

I'll be looking forward to your report or web link.

Thanks...Angelo

I'd like to post some information about resolution between the XH-A1 and DVC30.

The XH-A1 has 1440x1080 CCDs. The DVC30 (NTSC) has 720x480 CCDs. Having more pixel resolution reduces stair stepping effects on sharp diagonal lines. Does this mean this is going to the "true" visual resolution? NO it isn't. There are many factors to visual resolution, like Optics, CCDs, cam processors and recording format.

Looking at the Horizontal Line Resolution between the XH-A1 and DVC30, the XH-A1 has 604 and the dvc30 has 540. That's only 12% more. This one is disappointing I thought the XH-A1 would have at least 800 line BUT it's only 604!? I guess it make for easier focusing, I don't know.

My observation of the XH-A1 HDV specs is that XH-A1 will have much better and cleaner edges with much better color depth with no big advantage to captured detail with a low line resoution.

My theory on the low optical (or line) resolution is that the XH-A1 processor must be softening the image to reduce image grain since the pixels are 33% of the DVC30's pixels.

In any case XH-A1 will give a much better progressive Film Looking image in 16:9 format which is what 3CCD was looking for.

There are Pros and Cons to the HX-A1. It will depend on your needs if it's worth the move from the DVC30 as the DVC30 gives you a lot of image control.

...Angelo