This is the "Canon HG10 Camcorder Review": http://www.camcorderinfo.com/conten...eview-33146.htm



Rich

What has this industry come too that we have to beg and cajole them to get features as elementary as a decent zoom lever? Simply amazing. Decent hand strap? Nah that's apparently asking too much. Ditto focusing ring or solid port covers!

Re zoom levers/rockers/whatever, why is it impossible for manufactures to provide some tactile feedback to indicate zooming speed changes?

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(minor gripes re this otherwise excellent review)

Hopefully they solved the problem with rattling batteries that plagues all HV20s. You did not mention it in your HV20 review, nor do you mention it here?

Also no discussion of a major issue with CMOS imager in this camcorder. As in HV20 Canon continues to employ an old scheme the so-called "rolling shutter" which can produce severe geometrical distortion in some shooting situations. (I posted one really radiculous example here). I find this close to unacceptable given that a solution (called "global shutter") is known and common in industrial cameras.

I take an issue with your statement that 24p "works just fine" on HV20. The fact is Canon decided to severely sabotage 24p in the HV20 by storing it in 60i and not including appropriate flags in their output streams which makes extracting the original 24p an extremely tedious exercise to say the least*. I realize you found 24p on this camera too poorly implemented to really bother with, but still it would be nice to know whether extracting a clean 24p footage from whatever this camcorder writes is doable and how hard it is.

Finally, some 15 years ago I bought an Hi8 Sony camcorder and the sound that camcorder recorded was an order of magnitude better than on Canon HV20. Given the same idiotic placement of the microphone as in the HV20 (Hi8 Sony had them in the front of the camera not on the top) I would assume the sound problem is as bad here as in the HV20.

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* contrary to what some have thought there is NO chance Canon will release new firmware to address this problem on the HV20 (24p being artificially converted to 60i) as true 24p is not even available on their prosumer $3k+ cameras, the best they offer there is 24f. Offering decent 24p on a consumer level simply makes no sense from the marketing point of view.

(hxxp://rapidshare.com/files/44450441/testmotion2.mov.htm)

(copied from another thread)

... It is my understanding that the "rolling shutter" issue only occurs with CMOS sensors. The so called "global shutter" which you claim is a solution is not without it's problems.

I am not aware of any consumer or prosumer video camcorder which uses the so called "global shutter", ie; those applications where CamcorderInfo users and other Videography publications would be interested.

Can you show me any CMOS camcorder with the so called "global shutter" which costs less than $1500?

The rolling shutter issue does not appear to be Canon specific problem, so is there any reason why you continue to preach the issue in regards to the Canon HV20? And now you are bringing up the same issue as well as others by the mere announcement of the upcoming Canon HG10?

Your constant droning on many of these issues are becoming annoying.

Rich.

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Yes "rolling shutter" is a feature of only cheap CMOS sensors. No I'm not aware of any camcorder which uses "global shutter" solution to the problem, but nor was I aware of any HDV CMOS consumer camcorder 3 years ago. There are plenty of industrial cameras though that have that feature (pattern recognition don't work very well if your camera distorts geometry of moving objects).

No I don't know that "global shutter" has other problems, hopefully they are not of such nature as to preclude it from being used in video camcorders. Can you elaborate, educate us?

Finally you need to push, cajole, moan, etc to get the industry to do anything, e.g. thanks to this site's constant prodding new camcorders tend to address problems users droned about ad nauseam. Read the self congratulatory section on the zoom rocker in this review for example. It didn't get there by accident. Hopefully constant harping by CamcorderInfo reviewers about poor quality of Canon's hand straps in their recent cc will get the issue resolved one of these days.

All said and done, we still need a solution to the geometry distortion problem in this and other CMOS camcorders, it's that simple. The problem is too serious imho.

Great review!!! Many Thanks!
Seems that Canon is the leader in HDV and AVCHD camcorders in 2007.

__________________
Regards
Sektionschef

Panasonic SDR-S100
Sandisk Ultra II 2GB SD Card
Raynox QC-505 0.5 WA
IBS 5X Tele
Velbon Ultra Maxi F Tripod
Magix Video deluxe 2008plus

Dear Moderators/Administrators
It is not possible to add comments to some of your reviews.
For example, if you like to post a comment in the Panasonic GS320 review then this comment is not shown below the review. Instead, that comment will be put in some other user thread!!!
Would be nice if someone could fix this
Regards
Sektionschef

__________________
Regards
Sektionschef

Panasonic SDR-S100
Sandisk Ultra II 2GB SD Card
Raynox QC-505 0.5 WA
IBS 5X Tele
Velbon Ultra Maxi F Tripod
Magix Video deluxe 2008plus

Canon must stop treating its consumers as idiots, especially when it comes to a simple menu item. I am sure that the known "press photo button halfway to read current aperture" trick works for this camera like it works for HVxx, DCxx, Elura 100 and probably for other recent consumer camcorders from Canon. It is not that hard to display real aperture/gain values instead of relative EXP numbers. This "improvement" or should I say, returning to basics, costs nothing, this is a purely software change. Or just add normal "M" mode and stop fooling around, this is not a $250 cam.

I want an option of recording in DV format onto the HDD. I want removable HDDs, is it this hard? PCMCIA Type III cards with built-in HDDs were common 10 years ago.

I want an option of recording video onto a memory card. Heck, I want a card-only cam. Look at the recent Panasonic offering. I want the same functionality in HG10 body.

I absolutely don't care about the viewfinder. It does not flip up, it only extends, this makes no sense if the cam is on a tripod. Another gimmick just like a focus wheel. These are sorts of features that either have to be implemented properly and fully, or they should not be implemented at all.

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Michael, Canon Elura User Pages

Frankly, I honestly believe that the powers that be in videoland are trying to move us down a path which they have decided we are going whether we like it or not. This is unfortunate. My Sears camcorder from the 80s recorded better audio than the two Canons that I own now (Elura 100 and Optura 1500). And my new Sony HC7, using a tape mind you, runs rings around this new HDD / flash based AVCHD format. Go figure!!!

The bottom line is that for the highest video quality and long term affordable video archiving, nothing beats a tape based HDV camcorder, unless you're willing to move even further up the cost ladder.

I wouldn't buy anything that smells of AVCHD. It's a stop gap measure until they can figure out how to record the higher bit rates of REAL HD on dvd / blu ray / flash media at an affordable price. And deliver the software tools to edit and author.

No thanks!

I find it strange that how you compare the Canon cam to Sony's SR7.
Well, the Sony SR7 is now a few months old model, but still there is no review of it on this site.
Then you have a brand new Canon, announced 1st August, and you have the full review on 9th August.

STRANGE.


Rolling shutter is a pain in the arse for every CMOS camera.


As for the AVCHD being a temporary codec. Well, maybe. But the thing is, it's very good compression (less HDD space wasted on the PC than with DV!) Those who have lots and lots of hours of footage on their PC will like it. Yes, editing is problematic. But there're tools to convert to MPEG2 or something else and edit that, but the archive size will be smaller the HDV. I like it. AVCHD is not for a pro, but it's very good for a serious amateur.

Very strange. Sony must not be proud enough to share a model with CC Info

Great review on the HG10 - seems like an excellent product.

Thanks, guys!

Thanks for fixing the posts to news items and reviews CCI.

In the paragraph on compression in Format section of the review, it is said that the traditionel AVCHD coded used is the main profile.

Small correction as up to the release of the HG10, the market was split in half between the main and the high profiles, Sony using the former and Panasonic the latter.

Note that the higher format is backwards compatible, so Canon and Panasonic can likely play together, both capable of reading Sony video, but Sony cannot understand what Canon and Panny are saying.

What will it be of Blu-ray players capable of reading the AVCHD codec? Will a Sony deck only read the main profile, incompatible with video recorded in the High Profile codec of the Canon or Panasonic?

Consummer beware when purchasing the Blu-ray player we will one day need with these camcorders! We'll want to take a sample disk on the day we purchase the blu-ray deck.

Can someone confirm the resolution in which the HG10 records HD video as either 1440x1080 or 1920x1080?

1440x1080 AVCHD Camcorders :
Sony HDR-SR1/-SR5/-SR7-SR8/-UX1/-UX7/CX6
Panasonic HDC-SD1/DX1

1920x1080 Full HD AVCHD Camcorders :
Panasonic HDC-SD3/-SD5/-SX5

Also, the Specs and Ratings section of the review gives the filter diameter as 37mm. Canon USA shows a filter of 43mm. Which is true?

i would love to see some footage of the 'jittering' can some one send me a link to a download? or a torrent link? i would be happy to seed for a while after i have finished downloading to share to others

thanks

The accessories page on the Canon USA website for the HG10 shows a mini HDMI cable, implying that this camcorder has a mini HDMI connector.

The mini HDMI cable is a bit more expensive than a standard HDMI cable. The mini connector has not been so common, lately seen on the latest Sony's.

With more camcorders using this connector, perhaps the price for the cable will drop a bit...

As for removable HDDs, the drive size used in camcorders (1.8") was developed specifically for PC Cards! (It's the exact same physical size as the drives used in your mentioned drives.)

Recording onto memory card is my question. In the review, on the "Other Features" page is a quote:
Yet there is no mention of this on the "Format" page. So, David, can it record AVC onto mini SD card or not?