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02-16-2008, 12:34 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 44
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Using XH A1 in the cold environment
Hello folks,
does anyone have any experience with using XHA1 in extreme cold? I am wondering what would be the minimum temperature I could use my camera in, without damaging it. The manual says that operating temperature is 0 Cº, but when I watch March of the penguins Behind the Scenes video, those guys had no camera protection filming in -40 Cº. So I am wondering how safe it is for the equipment to film in this kind of environment and if there is any protection, like (thermo covers) available.
Thank you,
Howard
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02-16-2008, 01:00 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Washington,DC
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Howard2
Hello folks,
does anyone have any experience with using XHA1 in extreme cold? I am wondering what would be the minimum temperature I could use my camera in, without damaging it. The manual says that operating temperature is 0 Cº, but when I watch March of the penguins Behind the Scenes video, those guys had no camera protection filming in -40 Cº. So I am wondering how safe it is for the equipment to film in this kind of environment and if there is any protection, like (thermo covers) available.
Thank you,
Howard
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I don't know how they shot behind the scenes videos but to shoot the movie itself they used Aaton XTR Prod which is a film based camera that can operate between -20°C / +4°F to +40°C / +104°F. One thing for sure, you will have problems with the LCD screen below freezing. You will need to use the viewfinder. Maybe a camcorder such as hvx200 with p2 cards instead of a tape based camcorder with moving parts will be more suitable. P2 cards can operate between -20°C to 60°C.
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I want a red cam
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02-17-2008, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vsansal
I don't know how they shot behind the scenes videos but to shoot the movie itself they used Aaton XTR Prod which is a film based camera that can operate between -20°C / +4°F to +40°C / +104°F. One thing for sure, you will have problems with the LCD screen below freezing. You will need to use the viewfinder. Maybe a camcorder such as hvx200 with p2 cards instead of a tape based camcorder with moving parts will be more suitable. P2 cards can operate between -20°C to 60°C.
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I also don't know how they could of shot the behind the scenes videos because I don't know of any camcorders that can operate at less than 0°C, the HVX-200 included. I presume one of the reasons they can't shoot below 0°C is the LCD, however using the viewfinder won't help because viewfinders use LCD's as well.
In fact I'm a little confused by Howard's post...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Howard2
when I watch March of the penguins Behind the Scenes video, those guys had no camera protection filming in -40 Cº.
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What camera are you referring to? The film camera used to shoot the actual film, or the camcorder used to shoot the behind the scenes video?
If it's the film camera then vsansal has explained how they did it (well down to -20°C anyway... Maybe they used protection below that temperature, and you only saw a shot of the camera without protection because they were shooting in >-20°C), however I'm unsure of your reasoning that: because a film camera can shoot in such low temperatures that an XH-A1 can as well.
On the other hand, if it's the camcorder used to shoot the behind the scenes video that you are refferring to I can't see how they could be filming at such low temperatures and with no protection (not to mention why you would be seeing that camera in the behind the scenes video)
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02-17-2008, 11:41 AM
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There is a great possibility that they shot behind the scenes with the same camera too. They had more than one camera with them. So probably from time to time they used one to shoot behind the scenes.
Here is a part of an interview with the cinematographer of the movie Laurent Chalet.
"Everything went so fast that mental preparation took a back seat to all the logistical preparations for the shoot. It was probably just as well: the less time and distance we had, the less questions we asked ourselves. It became not so much about making choices but about preparing a technical and logistical operation that had to withstand 12 months of isolation and extreme cold. This meant, in addition to taking everything in duplicate, that we had to choose a ’film’ camera that was as mechanical as possible, strong enough to operate in -40°F (-40°C) temperatures and that we could fix easily in case of problem. I went down to Grenoble to work with the French camera manufacturer Aaton to customize one of their cameras. After that we had a medical check-up at the IPEV (Institut Français Polaire Paul Émile Victor), the French Polar Research Center which manages all the French expeditions to the Antarctic continent, and then we were gone. Once on the ground, we agreed on a method, a daily routine, which was based on solidarity and enthusiasm. Instead of taking turns, we worked together as a team. We would get up at 5:30 AM, prepare the equipment for an hour and a half, load four magazines of film (it was out of the question to do this on the ice), get dressed, and take off for a day of shooting, carrying about 130 pounds of equipment each. Only two things prevented us from filming: the weather, and running out of our daily film stock when we were out on the ice."
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I want a red cam
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02-18-2008, 10:58 AM
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Hi Vsansal,
Thank you so much for your input. So it looks like the only problem filming below freezing are technical difficulties, like temporary problems with LCD, batteries, mechanical parts, etc? I was little bit more concerned about actually permanently damaging the camcorder's computer system, CCDs, etc. Filming difficulties I could deal with, but I am paranoid about damaging the camera.
Vsansal, would you know, by the chance, any manufacturer of some thermo covers?
Thank you again for your response.
Cheers
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vsansal
I don't know how they shot behind the scenes videos but to shoot the movie itself they used Aaton XTR Prod which is a film based camera that can operate between -20°C / +4°F to +40°C / +104°F. One thing for sure, you will have problems with the LCD screen below freezing. You will need to use the viewfinder. Maybe a camcorder such as hvx200 with p2 cards instead of a tape based camcorder with moving parts will be more suitable. P2 cards can operate between -20°C to 60°C.
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02-18-2008, 11:12 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver
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Hello Blairness,
thanks for your response. I apologize, you are right, I do realize that my post is little bit confusing. What I have tried to say is this. When I have seen the documentary about making March of the penguins, I have noticed, that they did not use any covers. So I am refering to those cameras actually used for the movie itself. If I remember correctly, they mention filming in something like 60 below. Anyways, are all those problems with LCD, etc. only temporary or could I actually permanently damage the camcorder by using it below zero?
And if yes, are there any thermo covers available for XH A1?
Thanks guys again for your help.
Cheers,
Howard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blairness
I also don't know how they could of shot the behind the scenes videos because I don't know of any camcorders that can operate at less than 0°C, the HVX-200 included. I presume one of the reasons they can't shoot below 0°C is the LCD, however using the viewfinder won't help because viewfinders use LCD's as well.
In fact I'm a little confused by Howard's post...
What camera are you referring to? The film camera used to shoot the actual film, or the camcorder used to shoot the behind the scenes video?
If it's the film camera then vsansal has explained how they did it (well down to -20°C anyway... Maybe they used protection below that temperature, and you only saw a shot of the camera without protection because they were shooting in >-20°C), however I'm unsure of your reasoning that: because a film camera can shoot in such low temperatures that an XH-A1 can as well.
On the other hand, if it's the camcorder used to shoot the behind the scenes video that you are refferring to I can't see how they could be filming at such low temperatures and with no protection (not to mention why you would be seeing that camera in the behind the scenes video)
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02-18-2008, 11:30 AM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Mexico, USA!
Posts: 10,286
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Cold Weather Operations
Some of my old comments regarding cold: ----------------------------
If the camera is moved from a cold place to a warm humid place you may experience condensation internally as well as externally; fogging of the lens and your LCD display. So try to avoid sudden temperature changes. If you get a "Dew" warning indication your camera may shut down. Make sure you read your manual so you know what the "Dew" warning is. It is bad for the video heads. Normally the only solution is to let the camera come to room temperature and perhaps open the tape compartment to let it air out and dry. Battery performance definitely is related to temperature; you will probably notice reduced battery capacity. Don't put a frozen cassette in your camcorder; they can become brittle and they don't like that. You might want to consider a wool cover to wrap the camera in; I always carry a terrycloth hand towel in my camera bag to wipe down or cover my camera. Going from a warm humid location to a very cold area quickly can cause freezing; which is an extreme. Camcorders are typically rated to about freezing but I have operated to about -20 degrees F briefly 20 minutes or less. They do tend to stay warm while in operation.
I've had more problems with "Dew" in very warm humid locations or sudden elevation changes.
Some people remove the tape cassette and put the camcorder in an airtight bag and let it adjust to the temperature changes before removing to prevent condensation.
I have always gotten by with wrapping my camcorder in a terrycloth hand towel in my camera bag.
Rich
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Some cold weather threads which you might want to read through:
GS400: cold weather advice?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/sh...ad.php?t=108095
Does cold weather affect battery?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t1235.html
Cold Weather Shooting
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t49859.html
cold weather
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t107533.html
GS400: cold weather advice?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t108095.html
Operating temperatures for PC350?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/sh...ad.php?t=112021
The PV-GS400 in Antarctica
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t112396.html
How Should I Handle My Camera in Cold Weather?
http://www.wolfcamera.com/webapp/wc...catalogId=10001
Rich |
02-18-2008, 04:29 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 44
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Yes, I totally agree, they probably must have filmed that documentary with the same camera as the main future. I would doubt that they would carry an extra equipment in such conditions. Thanks for that interview, it is interesting. And thanks again for your help.
Cheers,
Howard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vsansal
There is a great possibility that they shot behind the scenes with the same camera too. They had more than one camera with them. So probably from time to time they used one to shoot behind the scenes.
Here is a part of an interview with the cinematographer of the movie Laurent Chalet.
"Everything went so fast that mental preparation took a back seat to all the logistical preparations for the shoot. It was probably just as well: the less time and distance we had, the less questions we asked ourselves. It became not so much about making choices but about preparing a technical and logistical operation that had to withstand 12 months of isolation and extreme cold. This meant, in addition to taking everything in duplicate, that we had to choose a ’film’ camera that was as mechanical as possible, strong enough to operate in -40°F (-40°C) temperatures and that we could fix easily in case of problem. I went down to Grenoble to work with the French camera manufacturer Aaton to customize one of their cameras. After that we had a medical check-up at the IPEV (Institut Français Polaire Paul Émile Victor), the French Polar Research Center which manages all the French expeditions to the Antarctic continent, and then we were gone. Once on the ground, we agreed on a method, a daily routine, which was based on solidarity and enthusiasm. Instead of taking turns, we worked together as a team. We would get up at 5:30 AM, prepare the equipment for an hour and a half, load four magazines of film (it was out of the question to do this on the ice), get dressed, and take off for a day of shooting, carrying about 130 pounds of equipment each. Only two things prevented us from filming: the weather, and running out of our daily film stock when we were out on the ice."
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02-18-2008, 04:33 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 44
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Hi Rich,
thanks so much for all your tips. That idea with the towel is good. I was thinking to make some kind of cover from my old winter jacket. But that towel thing is much more simple and I am sure it works.
Thanks again,
cheers,
Howard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by poncho
Some of my old comments regarding cold: ----------------------------
If the camera is moved from a cold place to a warm humid place you may experience condensation internally as well as externally; fogging of the lens and your LCD display. So try to avoid sudden temperature changes. If you get a "Dew" warning indication your camera may shut down. Make sure you read your manual so you know what the "Dew" warning is. It is bad for the video heads. Normally the only solution is to let the camera come to room temperature and perhaps open the tape compartment to let it air out and dry. Battery performance definitely is related to temperature; you will probably notice reduced battery capacity. Don't put a frozen cassette in your camcorder; they can become brittle and they don't like that. You might want to consider a wool cover to wrap the camera in; I always carry a terrycloth hand towel in my camera bag to wipe down or cover my camera. Going from a warm humid location to a very cold area quickly can cause freezing; which is an extreme. Camcorders are typically rated to about freezing but I have operated to about -20 degrees F briefly 20 minutes or less. They do tend to stay warm while in operation.
I've had more problems with "Dew" in very warm humid locations or sudden elevation changes.
Some people remove the tape cassette and put the camcorder in an airtight bag and let it adjust to the temperature changes before removing to prevent condensation.
I have always gotten by with wrapping my camcorder in a terrycloth hand towel in my camera bag.
Rich
----------------------------
Some cold weather threads which you might want to read through:
GS400: cold weather advice?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/sh...ad.php?t=108095
Does cold weather affect battery?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t1235.html
Cold Weather Shooting
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t49859.html
cold weather
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t107533.html
GS400: cold weather advice?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t108095.html
Operating temperatures for PC350?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/sh...ad.php?t=112021
The PV-GS400 in Antarctica
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t112396.html
How Should I Handle My Camera in Cold Weather?
http://www.wolfcamera.com/webapp/wc...catalogId=10001
Rich |
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02-19-2008, 02:47 AM
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Location: New Zealand
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Hi Howard, good to see your getting the help your after. I haven't looked at any of the threads that Rich linked to so I may be just regurgitating some information, but I know first hand that you can indeed damage at least the LCD screens in cold temperatures... In Jan I was on holiday and visited an ice bar (a bar where everything is made out of ice) that was kept at around -5ºC (it was actually around -11ºC when we were there). I made sure I left my cell outside, and told my friends to leave their digital cameras outside as well just incase they weren't rated to handle the cold. However, the staff member that was showing us in said it was fine to take cameras in so my friends did. As soon as one of them turned their camera on once we were inside they noticed the screen was cracked. Good thing we were on holiday and had insurance, so my friend could get the camera he had bought in duty free when we arrived, fixed!
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I live in a PAL Country!
Last edited by Blairness : 02-19-2008 at 02:49 AM.
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02-22-2008, 04:08 PM
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Hi Blairness,
that is pretty scary. I am definitely going to try eliminate shooting in such conditions. Maybe -5º C with some kind of cover would be the max., only if necessary. I don't feel like buying another camera, yet.
Thanks again for all your tips.
cheers,
Howard
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