A review of the SR12 and HF10 on a Asian website:

HF10
http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyl.../news078_4.html


SR12
http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyl.../news007_3.html

Thanks a lot Eric! I did some crop comparisons and posted this on my site: http://lucienk.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!A4AE3FB12A26635!699.entry

I certainly would wish to see the actual footage (or get some additional clips). I have a feeling that the noise you see in the still should not be that visible in a moving picture (I certainly didn't see much noise in Austin's HF10 clips).

I noticed they tested the max digital zoom and the SR11 certainly does a good job there (never thought about using that feature).

I love the contrast in HF10.. Seems like SR12 has some "fog" effect.
Also, slightly more details (video resolution) on HF10. More noise too, but yet as Luc said, this has to be seen 60 frames per second.

BTW Luc, this is not the same japanese review as that one a few days ago (no digital zoom comparison in this one, but lot of A/B)

Luc, this is a *new* website with more images.

Actually, it's fascinating how two camcorders can view the world so differently!

I would think you can relive the 'blue fog' of the sony thru white balance, scene select and other manual controls? But I don't know.

Both are nice camcorders.

Thanks, where can I find the A/B comparison? I would love to see that!

Regarding adjusting the SR11 picture: you can change the W/B but you cannot control the noise removal unfortunately. Scene setting mainly control aperture and that shouldn't have an effect on contrast or noise removal.

The HF10 is not flawless though. You do see some purple fringing (at the front white pole). But in this example it's not as bad and not everyone would notice it (I've seen worse with my old mini-dv).

Hf10/100 is a purple fringing beast! It's not something I care about, but I know others might find it annoying.

The link takes you to a image page of each camera. Maybe later I'll do some photo shop stuff.........

Ah I missed that those were different links. I checked out the links but unfortunately not a good A/B comparison since conditions were very different. It was much sunnier when they tested the HF10 causing more saturation and contrast.

You do get the purple fringing mostly in very high contrast (overexposed) areas. I've seen worse especially looking at these pictures. But it's an individual decision if you can live with it.
If it's lens CA than in theory it would decrease if you either slightly defocus, or better lower the exposure.

I think in these pictures the HF10 might look better with saturation and contrast toned down to -1. But sharpness/resolution is again really good.

Where did you get the comparison pictures comparing the buildings? I assume that's also on http://trendy.nikkeibp.co.jp?

I found it (indeed linked from the original zoom shootout):

http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?h...007264/%3FP%3D3

http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?h...007677/%3FP%3D3

I noticed the SR11 frame grabs are always slightly bigger at 2304x1296 (but same ratio and perhaps rescaled). The HF10 is exactly 1920x1080.

The SR11 looks more equal to the HF10 in this comparison. But you can still see similar differences. Especially the water doesn't look great on the SR11 (combination of too high contrast perhaps with compression artifacts).

The SR11 has also some purple fringing (check the arched building). Still slightly less overall (but more purple instead of blue).

I also notice again some strange color issues. Look at the sign with the yellow border. You see a yellow border on the HF10, but only faintly on the SR11.

But are the HF10 captures on a sunnier day? I see blue sky and hard shadows in the SR12 captures. I think it's the 'clearvid' sensor at work.

I'm certain(at least until CCI publish their SR12 resolution chart ) the HF10 has better resolution...as in the building pictures......but I don't think the Hf10's resolution edge is that great and probably hard to tell, unless they are side by side.

A couple of weeks and more HF10/100 videos will be on-line.

True it might be just as sunny. However it does look more hazy in the SR11 shots (e.g. the mountain is not very visible). Also a few shots show direct sunlight on the buildings in the HF10 framegrabs.

Weird enough in these shots I see higher contrast on the HF10 (compared to the other comparison). I can only explain that by more direct sunlight. Fortunately you could tune down these settings if you wish.

I'm convinced the HF10 has more resolution all shots I've seen but that's just one aspect of course. I do notice the extra sharpness in the HF10 clips I've seen so far. Too bad Canon didn't control the purple fringing better.

I wonder when the HF100/HF10 will be available. I have one on backorder but not sure if I'll get it in time before I go on vacation (mid April). No one could give me a date.

I wonder if the purple fringing is combination of lens CA and blooming. If it's lens CA then it would be interesting to see what happens at different apertures (which you can control on the Canon's fortunately).

More likely it's the imager but it would be great if someone can test this. Also an UV filter should help as well to reduce the purple fringing.

Don't think anyone knows what causes 'purple fringing' lots of educated guesses though.

It can be prevented....just have to pay attention to your exposure and subject.

A good article:

http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/chromatic.html#ref14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glo...erration_01.htm
http://www.sd3.info/pf828/Sony_828_...e_Analysis.html

If it's CA as a result of the lens, it would be a bit of a pain to have to constantly stay away from the 'offending' apertures. For one it means never being able to put the cam in automatic. Second it means that you always have to set lens opening manually, potentially limiting performance in some lighting conditions.

I just don't understand why Canon, after not having this issue with either the HV10 or HV20, is now manifesting this problem...whatever the causes.

Yes, it's very obvious from those pictures that the weather was much clearer than on the day the SR12 videos were shot. Additionally, they were shot at a different time of day...hardly an A/B. Just look at the picture of the Japaneese engraving on both cams. With the HF10 the emblem is bathed in sunlight, causing distinct shadows which improve apparent detail. The same shot with the SR12 has the gold engraving totally, 100% in the shadow.

I totally discount this as any kind of valid A/B. We shall what CCI finds. However, I do intend to pick up or gain access to an HF10 to compare to the SR12. That's when I'll be able to do a true A/B under identical conditions, side by side, same weather and time of day.

Yeah that's a pain and I don't see aperture much of an option. But 30p might make a difference, I don't know yet. However remember that the CA is predictable and not always visible.

All cams have some CA even professional cams (although most wouldn't even spot some slight green border).

I think cramming that many pixels on a small surface area is bound to cause some blooming. Add to that a smaller lens and it's harder to control. But I'm just guessing. Sony's Vlearvid has more green pixels so CA looks different and less noticeable (but the sensor has other issues imho).

I had great success removing CA from framegrabs. I just have to find an equivalent video filter that can do saturation reduction for a certain channel and certain range.
If I can't find one I'm thinking about creating a virtualdub filter. It's not too hard to do this.

Here's an example using Saturation/HSL: