I'm looking to make the full dive into video editing soon. This will require investing in a camera, a new computer, and an editing suite.
At the moment I have a PC so I've been using Adobe Premiere a bit. But I'd like to upgrade to a Mac with Final Cut.
As for the camera I've been trying to research, but it doesnt seem like the best time to buy a camera. MiniDV and SD are exiting quickly, but HD and HDD/solid-state arent mature yet.
I like the perks of HDD cameras, but doesnt seem like theres many/any good cameras using the technology at this point. On paper, I think the JVC MG555 sounds closest to what I'm looking for at this point. But some of what I've read makes the camera only sound so-so, especially with visual quality.

Camera aside, I'm wondering what the current state of affairs is for editing from HDD cameras, both SD and HD. I've read you need pretty powerful computers to handle the load, but are the above mentioned programs capable of editing these formats yet? Or is it just safer to stick with MiniDV for now? I don't really have a need for HD yet. And I would like not dealing with buying storing, importing tape if I didnt have to.So recommendations on a camera to consider would be appreciated.

Thanks for your thoughts.

1. If you don't think now is the time to buy a camcorder then you do not need a camcorder.

2. I don't know what technology you are waiting for and why you think "HD and HDD/solid-state arent mature yet."

3. Camcorder ratings are here: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.php click on the camcorder and read the review.

4. Go to vimeo.com

Here are some good videos made with the HV20:http://vimeo.com/videos/search:hv20...ormat:thumbnail

here are some goodvideos for the HF10 http://vimeo.com/videos/search:hf10...ormat:thumbnail

the HG10: http://vimeo.com/videos/search:HG10...ormat:thumbnail

and the SR12: http://vimeo.com/videos/search:sr12...ormat:thumbnail

Rich

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1. Not having a camera puts me in the position of needing to choose from what the market has, even if it the available solutions don't seem ideal..


2. As for maturity of available technology, my understanding is that HDD Standard Definition cameras record at a higher rate of compression than MiniDV. While HiDef compression is very system intensive, also higher compression than MiniDV HD, is not a industry standard format. Also editing programs arent all equipped to deal with these newer formats (which gets at my original question).

There is more to selecting a camcorder than the video compression ratio's. Have you ever watched a commercial DVD? That is a higher compression ratio than MiniDV (DV AVI). That is MPEG-2, the same compression as used on many HDD Standard Definition camcorders..

Video editing has always been system intensive and newer, faster, cheaper and more efficient computers are released frequently. Consumers have been editing High Definition Video (HDV) for several years now. I have use a two year old standard HP Pavilion m7480n computer to edit HDV.

There is no such thing as "MiniDV HD". The HDV (High Definition Video) format was created in 2003. It is a high-definition video recording format which uses MPEG-2 compression to fit HD content onto the MiniDV tapes originally developed for standard definition recording. It is also used in Prosumer camcorders. This reference explains the format in more detail and many editing solutions. I use Sony Vegas 7: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV

Another consumer High Definition video recording format is AVCHD (Advanced Video Codec High Definition) is a high-definition recording format introduced in 2006. It is more computer intensive to edit than HDV but there are many consumers using it. I gave you URL's for samples of this format, the HG10 and SR12 URL's on Vimeo. AVCHD is descibed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

I don't really know what your intentions, budget, desires or capabilities are. So I can't help you much more unless you have a specific question.




Rich

yussef, I don't know why you fixed up on HDD cameras, diskless and tapeless solutions are better, I am talking about solid-state camcorders.

Editing SD MPEG-2 is simple, and any decent computer can do that. SD MPEG-2 video will likely look worse compared to SD DV video. Does not matter that commercial DVDs use SD MPEG-2, they have better input to start with, and professional editors. Your raw SD MPEG-2 will not look like a commercial movie.

Editing AVC HD is taxing on your computer and requires modern editing system. Video quality is pretty much on par with HDV, and you don't have to deal with tapes. Both HDV and AVCHD will look pretty much like Mythbusters HD, but nothing like Planet Earth.

Rich - thank you for all the links and clarification on terminology.

jockey - you make a good point about SSD. I'm interested in HDD cameras because theres no need to deal with tapes. Are there currently any well regarded SSD (or HDD) cameras? And the reason I'm considering SD over HD is mainly cost of the camera.

Because this is my first foray into video, I don't want to spend too much. Of course, it doesnt mean I want junk either. From the reviews I've read on CCI, and what I've seen in stores, I'm not really impressed by the current consumer cameras. Most of them don't have viewfinders, very small optics, and seem to really be oriented towards point and shoot.
I'm looking for a camera with good quality (including lowlight), point and shoot ease, but the ability to be manually controlled for specific shooting, and adding lenses/accessories. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not finding a a tapeless SD camera with this description. There are a couple MiniDV cameras that seem like they meet this description, but they're miniDV...
These are the Panasonic PV-G320 and the Canon Elura 100. I've read the limitations of the PV-G320 so the camera's limitations are obvious, but it also seems like a solid camera in terms of what i mentioned above. Same goes with the Elura 100.
Any thoughts on these camera, or comparable tapeless cameras?
Thanks

With SSD you won't have to deal with spinning HDD that can fail abruptly with hours of footage on it.
The Canon HF100, it is HD only, no SD video.
Look for deals, look for open boxes, look on eBay. A new Canon HF100 can be found on the Web for about $650.
I'd say, if you want the sharpest possible picture on a consumer camera, get the HF. If you want more manual control, get the HG10, it has viewfinder, manual focus wheel (not a ring, but a wheel, and I actually like it more than a ring), but its video quality is not as detailed. Also, it has no 30p mode if this is important to you.

Or you can get a Sony, less picture controls, image quality on par with the HF or even better, but higher price and discounts do not occur often and not so huge as on Canon models.
The only serious downside of the HF is lack of manual focus ring, it has a stupid joystick like on a cheap Elura. If Canon supplied the HF with the same wheel they used on the HG10 it would be a perfect camera. Its screen is bright enough to be used in bright sun, it has enough manual settings for aperture / shutter speed, it has built-in ND filter (no control over it, bummer), it has 37mm thread for attachments, so filters or wide-angle adapters can be used easily.
I have the Elura 100. It is not a bad camera, this one is shot with it: http://www.vimeo.com/675422. This one is shot with Panasonic HDC-SD1, which is not the sharpest HD camera: http://www.vimeo.com/943480

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Michael, Canon Elura User Pages

If your going to buy a mac, pick any SD hard disk camcorder (sony, canon) and use iMovie to begin editing. Good way to start. You will have to convert the mpeg2 file to DV. Use mpeg streamclip (free) and a 20 dollar codec from apple. I use iMovie 6 since you can buy plugins (more transitions). Can't add pluggins for iMovie 8 due to apple crippling it. . Been doing this for a few years with my sony SR100. After a year of editing and the bug bites you, you will upgrade. That how I got my mac pro and will be ordering a sony SR11 soon. Go check out geethree for some real cool transitions. No need for FCE or FCP with these plugins.
Good luck.

Thanks for all the input on getting a new camcorder.

jockey - I really like the Canon cameras you mention. And I agree with your point about SSD being better than a HDD, but it also seems the HG10 is a bitter closer to what I'm looking for, and a bit cheaper too.

So at this point I think I'm considering either the Panasonic PV-GS320 or the Canon HG10. Perhaps not a common comparison, because they are different in many respects. But the Panasonic represents my more modest, conservative foray into video, based off tried and true MiniDV and requiring around $400 to acquire.
The HG10 has the modern amenities one might want if taking a more serious first step into video, but with the price premium of about $700 to acquire.

Which way would you go for your start in video?

If you have at least dual-core machine with 2GHz or faster CPU, go for high-def. If your computer is slower you will have to upgrade it if you go high-def route.

Do not forget that the GS320 is a stripped down model. The HG10 has manual focus wheel, mic input, headphone output. If the HG10 could record to SSD and had 30p mode I would consider it the best camcorder on the market today.

I am buying a camcorder this month to take and archive family videos.

If you were to choose between HG10 and HF10, which one will you go for and why?

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How would you compare the consumer HD camcorders vs. Panasonic PV-GS400?