One major use of my camcorders is to record concerts, particularly choral and classical music concerts. In the interest of getting the best quality sound I set up my Earthworks mics with a separate digital audio recorder/mic preamp (at 48kHz/24 bit sampling) to record at the same time I'm videotaping. I purchased an optional mic adapter for my first HD camera, a Sony HC3, but there was no way to defeat the camera's AGC (automatic gain control), set the level, and, since I really needed to run from the line level output of the recorder, greatly reduce the level coming into the camcorder so it wouldn't overload.

The problem with typical camcorders is that even with a mic input, there is no way to defect the AGC, so when you are recording music everything is mashed together at a limited dynamic range like Muzak. The AGC is a great tool for a lot of typical taping where the sound is constantly changing, but for concerts and musical performances it is not nearly what it should be.

I was very pleased (and surprised) to find that the Canon HF100 has done the audio recording options correctly. In addition to using the built in mic you can record from an external mic or input. Most important, you can also select an input attenuator which allows you to send line level inputs directly into the camcorder (for example, if you have excellent condenser mics and an external mic preamp/power supply). On top of that you can manually set the mic recording level, which turns the AGC off. And Canon allows you to display a tiny input audio meter on the screen so you can be sure that the level is not set too high (and overloading) and, what I think is most important, it enables you to be sure that a signal is coming in to the camcorder and being recorded.

Although I purchased the Canon to eliminate tape, the audio recording capabilities have been an unexpected excellent bonus.

This is a great camera for recording musical performances and, by using high quality external mics/preamps, getting superb audio with your great video.

Bob

Bob,

I want to record our band's (classic rock) performances. What kind of external mics do you recommend? I have some Shure vocal (xlr) mics but would need an adapter. Do you think the canon external mic would be any good?

Also, why did you need to use a digital audio recorder/mic preamp? Could I just get (or make) an xlr to 1/8 mini adapter?

Thanks,
Tom

Tom,

I used an external recorder for two reasons:

1. I'm recording with Earthworks condensor mics. The recorder provides 48 volt phantom power.

2. Since my main objective was to record to make a CD, the external recorder insures that I can get the best quality, since I can record at 44.1/48/96 kHz and, more importantly, at 24 bit depth rather than 16 bits. The 24 bit depth is better sound and handles a wider dynamic range.

I would not get any mic that's a single "stereo" mic. You need about 12 to 18 inches of separation between mics, whether they are cardiod (directional) or omnis, to get a good stereo image.

While I would recommend Earthworks mics, they can be expensive.

Bob

Thanks for the info Bob. I checked out Earthworks and they ain't cheap! Anyway, I'm confused about what your setup was like. You say you are using an external recorder. So how do you sync the audio with the video if you aren't recording the audio on the camcorder?

I did a test with a Shure SM58 Beta vocal mic directly to the mic input. It seemed to work, but the signal wasn't as loud as the internal mic. This was just a quick test at home, not at a venue, so I don't know how well or if it would work.

Thanks,
Tom

Tom,

Actually, I ran the line level output into the mic input of the Canon. Set the Canon for mic attenuation (which means that the mic input will not overload with the line level source) and manual level control, which eliminates the automatic gain control in the camcorder.

If I need to use the audio recorded on the (Tascam HDP2) audio recorder I just copy the wav file from the Tascam's compact flash media on to my computer and when I edit on the computer I can match up the sound from the camcorder very easily with the Tascam audio file. Then I just mute the camcorder's audio in the editor. This way I am covered if I set the Canon level too low (or too high) and can also take advantage of the better 24 bit sound from the Tascam.

Bob

Oh, I get it now. I'm a newbie so I appreciate your time explaining it!

Tom

What kind of mic preamp do you use? How do you connect its output to the camcorder?

Or are you saying that you are recording the audio separately, to the digital audio recorder? If so, why would the audio capability of the camcorder make any difference, if you are going to use the audio that was recorded separately by the digital audio recorder?

Also, if audio is recorded separately (I've considered that), isn't it difficult to sync it precisely?

If, however, the sound is going from the preamp into the camcorder to be recorded, then another question--why set the preamp to 24 bit 48khz? The camcorder cannot be set to that bit rate and sampling rate, can it? Shouldn't the preamp be set to the same bit rate and sampling rate, as the recorder can record? (I assume 16/44.1.)

--------------
Edit--I'll correct that last assumption. I would assume 16/48. I think all camcorders (regardless of audio quality) record audio at 48khz sampling rate, as that is standard for DVDs.
-----------------

It's good that Canon has finally introduced a consumer level camcorder that has good audio capabilities. (Not just the BS sales stuff like zoom mic, surround sound, etc.) I hope the others follow suit.

Have you tried the accessory external mic that Canon sells for the unit? How was its quality for music?

Hi Bob,

I just wrote a response with questions, to your original post, and now see this one. It sounds like the following. You are recording with the digital recorder/preamp, but also simultaneously recording with the camcorder. So, although the Tascam is recording at 24/48, the Canon is presumably recording at the same time, in 16/44.4. Not recording from its internal microphone, but from the line out of the Tascam, therefore using the Tascam as a preamp and as a way to connect the condenser XLR microphones. Correct? The reason that you are simultaneously recording with the Tascam is for backup, so that in case the audio on the Canon doesn't come out too good, you can edit in the Tascam audio to replace it. Did I get it right?

As mentioned before, if your main focus was on recording the audio with the Tascam, then the audio capability of the camcorder wouldn't matter at all, only the video quality. So, I assume you hope to be able to use the audio recorded by Canon, and only record Tascam for a backup.

Of course, doing it that way, there are more analog-digital conversions. The Tascam is taking an analog signal, recording it digitally, but outputting it analog again to the camcorder. The camcorder inputs it analog, and converts it to digital. I don't know if there could be a problem, with so many conversions.

If there was a way for the external preamp/dac to send a digital signal to the camcorder, for the camcorder to input digitally, then there would be less conversions. But I guess the Canon doesn't have a digital audio input (that would be too much to expect!), so that might be unavoidable.

I have seen an adapter that takes two xlr condenser mic as input (phantom powered), and outputs to one 1/8" stereo (even with its own meter and level setting), made especially to use with camcorders (attaches to the accessory shoe), but it looked pretty expensive. You might get the same result on the camcorder that way, although I don't know if those have a preamp, and your way you get a backup recording on the Tascam.

I think I would have difficulty getting a precise synchronization there. Especially because, when recording a concert with a camcorder, I press pause in between each song. That is very handy, making each song a separate file, convenient for editing later. If I had to press pause on the digital recorder each time too, that would be cumbersome, and it would be difficult to press the buttons at precisely the same time.

If I thought it would be easy to synchronize sound recorded separately with a digital audio recorder, then I wouldn't be concerned about getting a camcorder that has good audio capability. But, especially the way I do it, I think it would be very hard to get precise synchonization.