I have a two year old ZR20 with less than 6 hours of recording time. Just recently it has started eating tapes when rewinding. I have since damaged one recorded tape and two brand new tapes (used for fear of damaging any more recorded ones). I called tech support, they recommended the head clearner, which I did, to no avail. So they recommend sending it back to the factory for a free estimate of repair.

My questions are:

1) Has anyone experienced this problem too? If so, what was the solution.
2) Is this to be expected after such a short recording time?

Thanks for any insight.

DPK

Oh boy, are you about to embark on a journey of utter frustration. My ZR10 announced the beginning of this problem by flashing "REMOVE CASSETTE," and promptly shutting down, locking the cassette in the camera. Naturally, I went immediately to the Canon USA website to find out how to remove the cassette, went to their troubleshooting FAQ, only to find that there are eleven questions in the FAQ, and they are identical for every DV cam that Canon sells. Of the eleven questions, TWO deal with the tape problem. Canon's answer to these questions? Send the camera in to Canon.

I am a semi-retired grandfather who spent way more than I could afford on buying the camera in the first place, and who has few resources for sending in a camera for repair.

When the camera is no longer on warranty and you send it in to Canon, they will not even give you a ballpark estimate of the cost. What they don't tell you is that their MINIMUM bench charge is $145; so with my shipping, their bench charge, tax and return shipping, the bill came to more than $180. This on a camera that is now worth about 300 bucks on ebay.

The repair lasted two weeks.

I could go on an on about the great image quality, but lousy tape drives and horrendous support, but in the interest of time will let you and all other forum members who are interested that I am currently trying to interest my state attorney general in what I believe is a consumer fraud perpetrated by Canon, namely that the company fails to inform the prospective buyer that they will have to return the camera for frequent (and totally unexpected) repairs, as their cameras have a terrible reputation for this problem.

I would be most interested in hearing from any others who have had this problem, as I would like to establish that Canon cameras have this problem, and that Canon cannot fail to know about it. Several people with Opturas and Eluras have noted this situation also.

BTW there is a pretty lively discussion of this problem in the Elura group going on right now. The thread is: _ remove cassette error w/ elura 40mc

Hi, I share in the frustration with the other Canon users on this issue. I got the "Eject Tape" message intermittently on my ZR30. That and a big blue pixel that was getting burned into my recordings prompted me to send it into Canon. My bill came to $165, but I must say that their customer service and communication was first rate!
After the repair (more than 90 days after), I again got several "Eject Tape" messages. I've noticed that it doesn't like certain tapes. I've had best luck with TDK tapes, and regular problems with Sony DV tapes. Initially got the message with a Panasonic 83-minute tape but was successful on the second attempt to insert it into the ZR30.
I work with lots of different Mini-DV and DVCam equipment. I've noticed across all manufacturers a consistent flimsiness to their tape carriage mechanisms. Maybe it's due to the small form factor, but I've had more trouble with improperly inserted tapes in DV gear than I've had with S-VHS, Beta, Hi-8, etc.
Not sure if this class action lawsuit that Tommy's hinting at will materialize, but it sounds like lots of people are ready to sign up!

Perhaps I am wrong in this, but I can't help thinking that this problem is larger for Canon than other DV Cam manufacturers. Since the repeated malfunction (and eventual death) of my ZR10, I have been searching the net and Usenet groups to find others who are experiencing the same problems.

So far, the only evidence that I have for my beliefs is anecdotal, but the commonality of the problem is worrisome. Just too many people are reporting problems with their Canons (across the entire Canon line of DV products) that are all related to the tape transport failure.

Moreover, Canon is pointing fingers at everything but the failure of their own products. They blame moisture, and most importantly, tapes. They recommend arcane procedures such as fast forwarding then rewinding new tapes prior to use, use of only one brand of tape, etc. None of these cautions are found in the owner's manuals for their cameras. My Canon failed, by the way, using only Canon tapes.

It seems to me that it is perfectly reasonable to expect a consumer to purchase at the local Wal Mart or Best Buy any tape marked "MiniDV" and manufactured by a reputable firm. We have done this for decades with audio cassettes and VHS tapes. These cameras need to be able to be used in the real world by real people who follow real and accepted consumer practices. If these Canon cameras are so delicate that they cannot handle these acceptable and traditional consumer practices, then Canon needs to warn consumers of this fact.

You know what I suspect? I suspect that Canon engineers designed the tape transport mechanism, sent the design out to manufacturers for bid and bought a bazillion of them based on price alone. I suspect that Canon is, or was, stuck with bunches of these transports, and, counting on consumer ignorance or isolation, went ahead and installed them in their line of cameras knowing that a certain percentage of them would experience head alignment problems. From Canon's point of view, those of us stuck with the faulty transports are just out of luck.

You say that your repair from the Canon Repair Facility cost you $165. I would bet that the exact cost was $164.25, which was exactly what I spent on mine. Also, you forgot to acknowledge your cost to send that camera to Canon. Bet your total cost of repair was about $180. Now, as your camera ages, how many times are you going to send it in to Canon before you finally decide that the current value of the camera no longer justifies spending $180 on repairs? What will you do then? Sigh and buy a new camera? I think that Canon is counting on this silent resignation.

Hop on over to the Elura users group discussion. There you will find a thread about the tape transport problem marked with several stars that has had views numbering in the thousands. We should not go quietly into the night. Canon has made a mistake, and they need to make it right.

If I run into problems that you are having that I would not buy another Canon Camcorder. After playing around with my ZR60, I kind of wish that I would have spent a little more and got the Sony. Just because of the low light issues with the canon line. I was very disappointed when I shot some film inside. Just left the camer on auto. Looks like crap! After fooling around with some of the settings that I got from this group makes things a lot better. I guess for the money that I spent that I can't complain to much. But when I run into a problem with a product, I never by that product again. Kind of the reason why I will never by a Ford car again.

Matt

I wasn't suggesting in any way that Socram or anybody replace their malfunctioning Canon with another Canon. My point was how many times would someone spend serious money on repairing a camera before deciding that it just was no longer worth it, especially if the malfunction had happened before. I couldn't agree with you more that buying another camera of the same brand after an unhappy experience with the first one would be insanity.

As I have said before, I am a semi-retired grandfather. I have absolutely no "extra" money any longer to buy cameras or any other kind of luxury good. Thus, I am stuck with a camera that began malfunctioning within about 10-12 hours of very careful use. That is the beef that I have with Canon. That is why, when I have finally scraped together the $100 necessary for filing fees, I am going to sue them in the small claims court system that we have in Iowa.

A class action lawsuit would not be suitable for me because of the time it takes to go through that entire action. Because, at the time of my retirement, I already had the computer and the software capable of editing digital movies, my point in spending way more money on a digital camcorder than was prudent was to photograph my grandchildren as they were growing up--to give them the little gift of being able to see themselves, long after I am gone, as they were when they were just born, or two or five. I trusted Canon, but Canon, like any common con artist on the street corner, took all my money and left me holding the bag. Canon, this big multinational corporation, is making a portion of its profits by screwing a guy like me.

I am not seeking to punish Canon, though I think that they deserve it. I just want my money back so that I can buy another camera as quickly as possible. I am, like the grandchildren I want to photograph, getting older every day.

Tommy and Matt, you're right about Canon's consumer line. I probably wouldn't buy another one based on the performance. Like Matt, I was attracted by the price and the features. Unless you know how to tweak out what limited manual controls you have, it really doesn't shoot great video indoors.
Regardless, I still am a big fan of Canon's prosumer line! I'm a new owner of the GL2 which hopefully will be free of the tape transport problems of its lowly cousins.

Same problem here, from what I've been reading. I've got a 15 month old Canon GL2 which has only been used for a total of 12 hours. I've exclusively used Sony Premium 60mins tapes on the camcorder.

I proceeded to rewind a tape to the beginning, and the camera displayed a warning message "Remove The Cassete". I ejected the tape and everything looked fine. I put the tape back in and pressed rewind again. A few seconds later, the following error message "Eject Tape".


I pulled the tape out and noticed that the camera had chewed up a portion of the tape! The footage on the tape was irreplaceable and I'm very upset at Canon.


Canon customer service told me to sent in the camera for repairs. I've shipped it back and will wait and see what the outcome is.


Based on the previous responses I think the Sony tapes might be the culprits here.

What tapes are people using in their Canon? Should I stick with
Panasonic? I have read that the GL2 was tested with Panasonic
tapes.

They all use the same tape transport mechanism, from the lowly cousins to the XL.

The problem, Mac Dakoo, as you noted starts in rewinding. The problem first became apparent when I was reviewing footage for log and capture for my computer movie editor. At first, the only problem that happened was that when the rewind mechanism went into "high speed" rewind mode, the time code disappeared, meaning that it was extremely difficult to find the footage that I was looking for. The problem then progressed to "eject cassette," then beeping and locking the cassette in the camera (which requires repairs by Canon). I have used only Canon tapes. (@ $10 a pop, I might add)

BTW, Mac Dakoo, when you get your GL back, try some rewinding, stop, try some more. My ZR started acting up withing two weeks of its return from the Canon repair facility. I'd be interested to find out your experience with a Canon "repair."

I have a ZR50 that is eating tapes on rewind.
It has only had 7 Canon branded 60 min tapes run through it and has been very well taken care of.
After reading this thread I am not sure how to proceed. I work for a company that resells these.
Maybe I will start with the Canon rep an see what he has to say.

I would be very interested to hear what someone from Canon has to say. All of the Canon tech reps with whom I've spoken are trained to make soothing noises, and do nothing else. The only thing they have told me to do was to send the camera in to Canon and have it repaired for big bucks. That, plus the repair they insisted was the only answer didn't work.

Please report back what you hear. I think that Canon has a problem, but is just stonewalling it. A letter to the president of Canon USA got me only a letter from the Vice President in charge of repair operations who told me that my camera was now fixed, Canon did not have a design problem, and that everything was just hunky-dory. This can't be helping their reputation. Just too many of us have the same problem with Canon tape transports. I'll never buy another Canon product again, and can't recommend that anyone else purchase one either.

So, far, I know that I have steered 5 friends and family members away from Canon products--People who knew that I had a Canon camera, and wanted my opinion before they purchased one. Given the cameras they eventually purchased, that's about $4000 in lost sales to Canon.

AlterEgo, sorry this happened to you, but I'm glad it happened to someone who is poised to get some straight answers. Between the info you get, and the momentum TommyK is building toward an investigation with his state's AG, maybe we can get Canon to to do a recall on these units and offer a free repair and replacement! Seems like a long shot, but it might be easier than we think, if we can get organized.
Maybe the moderators of this forum can weigh in on what our options are as consumers. Perhaps we can get websites like this one and magazines to line up behind us and demand some attention to this matter from Canon. I'm feeling pretty optimistic about this!!! CHARGE!!!

Thanks Socram. I don't understand Canon's take on this problem. If it's not widespread, they shouldn't have anything to fear by helping the "few" of us who are experiencing the same problems with their cameras. Not dealing with this can only hurt their reputation, but maybe their bean counters have figured that fixing their problem will cost more than screwing those of us who have been sold unusable camcorders.

Heck of a way to do business, isn't it?

Message to Canon--We aren't done yet, and it's only going to get worse as more of these cameras age. Do the right thing and make good on your mistake.

If it makes you feel any better, I am having the same problem also. Luckily I purchased an extended warranty and am about to send it in for repair (assuming that it can be repaired).