Would the VX2100 or the GL2 be better for filming/editing a skateboard video?

i would go with a vx2100!!!!

much better low light performance. i am sure you'll be getting some of those latenight skate sessions on tape. you don't want you footage to look too grainy.

the sony's have performed much better than the canon cameras here at the college i work for. the sony's seem to take abuse better. i personally like the look of the video from the sony's better than the canon's.

chad

Yes, I will probably be filming at night.

Dude, if you're shooting at night, DEFINITELY get the VX2100. 1 Lux with no graininess... yeah baby! I purchased mine a few weeks ago, and I can shoot out under street lights and it comes out pretty incredible... in fact, pretty "true" to what I saw with my own naked eyes.

VX2100 of course!

A good online community for skateboard filmography is here: http://www.digitalskate.net/cgi-bin/yabb/yabb.cgi

Great place to ask your skateboard filming related questions.

I plan on purchasing a vx2100 myself, whenever I get the money.

By this camera, the Century "Death" Lens (.3x fisheye), and you will have one hell of a skateboard filming camera.

__________________
-Curtis
Your world is a canvas, paint it as you like.

screw these guys i have a gl2 and thats what i use to film my skate videos the gl2 is much lighter to film wiht when u get the shots when u ride on skateboard behind the actually skater. Movie mode looks awsome when u use it with some shots something th vx doesnto have. LEts see we no you will be filming at night but you will be using a light obviously so it will be equall. The gap between the two cams isnt as big as these people make seem to be. They just like th brag. I have used the vx2000 and i own a gl2 and the low light u can barley tell, but with a light you cant tell the diffrence. The vx2100 has a slightly lower lux rating and if i can find the review the vx21 and the 2 is very minimal. I origanly bougtha vx then got scammed and then got a gl2. Trust me for skate videos the movie mode and the zoom is nice some the vx doesnt have. I am not saying dont get it but i like gl2 a little better for skate/snowbaord vieos.

__________________
Canon Gl2
Century Optics .3x Fisheye

Yeah, I think i'm goin with the GL2, I know I'd be happy with either, but I'll save a little with the GL2 and that movie mode sounds interesting.

__________________
Do you want to join the American Kow Club (AKC)? Email me if you do!

Jeffather, to be honest, (and I do NOT mean any direspect) it sounds like RandomOck is just a little bitter over a bad experience. Maybe I'm reading into it, I don't know... maybe he just likes the look of grainier footage (which, if the case, should be done artificially in post, NEVER at the source). Bottom line, the issue of low-light sensitivity doesn't just apply to shooting in the dark. It applies to all types of shooting. The reason why is because a very sensitive camera, such as the VX2100, is going to produce a cleaner picture than something like a GL2, even when the lighting is decent. (Solid colors have less pixel-by-pixel variance, etc.) This is basically the idea of "rule of capability", and the results are very noticeable on a high-end television. Even a VHS camcorder will look good on a little 5" LCD handheld TV. But if you view the output between these two cameras on a high-definition television, were every flaw will be made visible, and I believe you will definitely notice a difference. Further, the cleaner your source, the better quality and compression you'll get when encoding to MPEG2 for DVD. So, you'll be able to fit a little more (even if just a few minutes) high-quality footage on a DVD with the VX2100.

Quality Comparison:

For starters, the VX2100 uses 1/3" CCDs, while the GL2 only uses 1/4" CCDs... this goes a LONG way in determining the quality of footage. Further, the GL2 is rated at only 6 Lux MINIMUM (100lux recommended by Canon!)... that's a BIG difference from the 1 Lux that the VX2100 is rated for. A 6 Lux camera will have some trouble in nominal indoor lighting (dimly lit rooms, etc.), and are horrible for outdoor shooting at night. Sure, you can use an on-camera light, but using single lights makes your footage look flat. (Just think about on-location newscasters for small stations... they're often lit with a single on-camera light, and they always look much "flatter" than natural.) ...AND... since most on-camera lights are fairly low wattage, you're still going to get much grainier footage on the GL2 with a light, than with a VX2100 with the same light.

Regarding the "Movie Mode" (or "Frame Movie Mode" to be precise) in the GL2, it's simply a 30 fps progressive format (30p). You won't get better resolution that way, and video with action in it will look choppy from the decrease in unique images per second. (The 30 fps interlaced format (30i), which is used today for broadcasting and DVD (YES, Hollywood DVD movies are encoded in 30i, not 30p or 24p!), gives you a full 480 lines of resolution at 60 unique images per second, which is why motion from 30i sources, such as TV, look so much smoother (motion-wise) than movies.) So, even if you get the GL2, I'd recommend that you avoid using the Frame Movie Mode. If you specifically want the progressive "choppy" film look (some people do like it, and that's OK), you can always mark your 30i source for de-interlacing in post production, and you will get the same result as what the GL2 will give you in Frame Movie Mode. Conversely, you won't have the opportunity to artificially interlace a naturally progressive source, so for the most flexibility, always record in 30i, and forget about the "Frame Movie Mode" in the GL2.

Bottom line, do you want the BEST out there for your application? If you do, I recommend the VX2100. Mind you, the GL2 isn't a bad camcorder... but if you want what is currently the best available in this class, get the VX2100. ...Or wait until Canon comes out with something new that will be comparable to the VX2100, that's up to you. What you have to ask yourself is this: how good do you want your footage to look, and is the difference in the quality of footage going to be enough to justify the additional cost? Some people will say "yes" to this (as I did), and others will say "no". It just depends on how serious you are about the quality of your video. ..and remember, there's no shame in choosing cheaper cost over higher quality, it's all about what's best for you.

Now I can't help you with all this technical stuff like other, more experienced, folks can; but, when I shopped for mine, I just went to my local retailer armed with a tape and shot some footage in typical flourescent store light and then in low light conditions in one of their TV rooms.
(my concern was low-lighting more than anything else).

I then took my tape home and watched on my tv. Over and over. Drove my wife crazy.

For low-light it was a no brainer. VX2100.

The GL2 was lighter, cheaper and did very well in the well-lit areas and outside; however, it just fell well behind when it came to MY typical shooting environment.

Just my 2 cents worth.

rcry is an idiot he doesn't know the first thing about skatevideos so don't listen to him. Alls he shoots is his wife and children look at his review. If you want to call it that. You don't want to be lugging an around a bigger camera when your skating and running from security when you skate street. Ya I like the vx2000 but not the vx2100 it is a joke, but any ways I know and you know you are not going to film at night in pitch black with no light. Trust me the gl2 is the better for skate filmers. As CCBATSON has said 1 lux is only good if your going to go shoot crickets at night!! Get the gl2 and the money you safe you can buy a century optics fish eye a must have for skate videos. Don't take advice on video stuff that people have never shot before trust me!

__________________
Canon Gl2
Century Optics .3x Fisheye

Man, that's just rude... calling people idiots... and, RandomOck, it just shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, nor do you have the confidence to debate in an intelligent manner, such that you have to call people idiots.

Oh, and I shoot a HECK of a lot more than my wife and children... those pictures in my review were TEST pictures that I had to take on short notice (so I could return one of them to B&H if I needed to), so, yes, my wife and Kids were handy to shoot for the purpose of that individual test. This just goes to further prove the point that you have no idea what you're talking about, RandomOck, making rash assumptions with absolutely no grounding or support for your arguments. While I'VE been talking about technical issues from an informed perspective, all YOU'VE been saying is "that camera sux, don't listen to them"... as if you expect people to take such silly arguments as if they evidenced valuable, factually based information. LOL... get real!

Folks, just to clear the facts from the fiction, I have shot a ton of video, and used a very wide variety of devices. I have degrees in Broadcast Communications and Computer Science and have been working with broadcast video (and related products) for many years. So, when it comes to technical expertise, I have it in spades... so RandomOck, you have absolutely NO authority or justification to say "don't take advice on video stuff that[/from] people [that] have never shot before trust me!" Folks, trust ME, I have shot plenty, and MY advice is to not take advice from wanna-be posers that clearly don't know a thing about the technical requirements of shooting quality video... and I don't care how many hours a person has had shooting, time on camera alone doesn't make them a good videographer. (Although it will make an already talented videographer better.) I've seen video (even in broadcast) that is just amatuerish at best... from people that are allegedly professionals. So, RandomOck, let's stick to the REAL issues and not play the "I know more than you game", because you will NOT win.

So, let's get down to brass tacks. Have I myself created a skateboard video? No. So, don't ask me for creative advice for shooting a skateboard video. My creative feel may not fit your vision... BUT the issue at hand is not a creative choice, but a technical one... which camera performs better in medium and low light? (Since you're shooting outdoors at night it IS a major consideration, even with an on-camera light. To say otherwise is like saying height) The VX2100 is the CLEAR choice between the two... and it is a FACT that highly sensitive cameras perform better in medium light than less sensitive cameras... even if both cameras can take "acceptable" pictures in medium light. And that is a FACT... not a matter of subjective opinion. So, again, we're talking about a technical question that needs a technical solution. You may not trust my creative input for shooting skateboard videos, fine, I can live with that... but when it comes to the technical analysis of two camcorders, and which is better suited for an application (based on the quality requirements), I am MORE than qualified.

As far as running around with "bigger camera", the VX2100's dimensions are 4 3⁄4" x 6 3⁄8" x 15 1⁄2" at 3 lbs 6 oz, while the GL2 is 4 5/8" x 5 3/8" x 12" at 2 lb. 7.5 oz. That means that the VX2100 is ONLY 3 1/2" longer (only 29% longer) and is ONLY an inch taller (only 18% higher) and is less than a pound heavier than the GL2. So, RandomOck, if you're not man enough to handle this SLIGHTLY larger camera, than fine... but it doesn't mean Jeffather will find the VX2100 too big at all. In fact, he might find it very comfortable. Further, I have found the VX2100 to be particularly nimble with the newly designed handle, and it's on-handle zoom and record controls can let you hold it right on the ground to easily handle some basic control functions from awkward camera angles... something the GL2 does NOT offer. It seems to me that this may be a very important consideration for skate videos, but again, that's a creative issue, so take it however you like. Even if you don't find this feature useful, the VX2100 is still the superior camcorder in many ways.

And my analysis of 30p vs. 30i is absolutely 100% correct and is, quite simply, a TECHNICAL issue only... since you can convert 30i to 30p later. (Your choices later are not limited when you shoot in 30i, as it is in 30p.)

For you to challenge any of this, RandomOck, just shows how little you know (OR... how stubbornly biased you are, OR... that you feel stupid for using the lesser camcorder and defend it only for the sake of your selfish pride... take your pick)... and I for one think everyone will find that to be obvious.

Now, Jeffather, if weight is a really big consideration, I'm sure the GL2, which is slightly lighter than the VX2100, will take OK video... but if you value GREAT video over weight (this is a preference issue), then the VX2100 is the camcorder for you. ...Oh, and if you were talking about strictly daylight shoots (very bright shooting conditions), then either camcorder would probably do just fine, and then the factors of weight and cost have more impact. But, this is night shooting, not day-time shooting, so you really owe it to yourself to get the better Camcorder.

Bottom line... RandomOck, dude, you just need to CHILL out and quit slamming on people just because you feel threatened... grow up, man. You're really not helping Jeffather make an informed decision, just busting on the camcorder brand that YOU happened to have a bad experience with. So, put a sock in it if you don't have anything constructive to say. (And if you want people to respect you and your opinion, how about giving some respect first...)

"Further, I have found the VX2100 to be particularly nimble with the newly designed handle, and it's on-handle zoom and record controls can let you hold it right on the ground to easily handle some basic control functions from awkward camera angles... something the GL2 does NOT offer. It seems to me that this may be a very important consideration for skate videos, but again, that's a creative issue, so take it however you like. Even if you don't find this feature useful, the VX2100 is still the superior camcorder in many ways. "

Maybe if you would do some more reading but the gl2 has the same thing on the handle record photo and zoom. canon had it on the gl2 first. I am not try to be an a** or anything but you came out with the same attitude about how great the cam is personaly sony has their heads up there a**es they cant get the pd170 right and now there are rumours of more audio problems with the vx21. Infact i ordered a vx2000 before i got my gl2 i got screwed over and then i used a gl2 and saw that it was way better for what i was doing. Yes you might have a degree in broadcasting and the vx2100 might be good in that field or what ever but the gl2 is a skateboard cam. THe vx2100 can do the job wiht skateboarding but i have seen the two videos taken you can barley tell the diffrence. I dont think jefffarthers is working for some huge skate film copmany like 411 or any thing but i was just saying tthe gl2 is better for skateboardig period! lets call it truce rcy i didnt mean to be such a jerk but skatevideos is my area.

__________________
Canon Gl2
Century Optics .3x Fisheye

Just wanted to correct you, rcryniak, about one thing. The GL2 does have top-of-handle controls for record and zoom.

Other than that, not to sound like a broken record, but I again agree with rcryniak. We're talking a camera that's three and a half pounds in weight... That's really not much at all. RandomOck, I'd like to see you lug around one of those 1980s VHS camcorders and then come back and complain about how awkward the VX2100 is. If size and convenience is the big thing for you, why did you even spring for the GL2? Any Handicam or equivalent sounds like it'd be satisfactory for your needs.

I do think, though, that it's not an issue that either side should get too worked up about. They are BOTH great cameras and either one would probably be satisfactory. I happen to side with rcryniak because of the better low-light performance (read: better CCD sensitivity), but if you disagree, that's fine. More power to you.

RandomOck: I would like to know, though, why you say the VX2000 is good but the 2100 sucks? Just because of the slightly enlarged mic/handle? I suggest you find a model to try out in person, because I doubt you'd even notice it if you just started messing with the camera. And a few square centimeters of plastic certainly isn't worth giving up 1 lux (or especially 5 lux) of CCD performance.

Dude, that's fine... I was telling the guy to get what best suited him, and that if picture quality was his #1 concern, than the VX2100 was the better choice, and you had to go insulting me without ANY regard for the facts, just bashing away because of your own bias. (Whatever the cause.) But, you apologized, so that's cool.

To sum up... I've said this MANY times on this board, and will SAY IT AGAIN... guys (and gals!) GET THE CAMCORDER THAT BEST SUITS YOU... try them all out... you may find that a less expensive camcorder takes just as good a picture as other more camcorders for YOUR application. But I will ALWAYS stick to my guns on the issue of low-light and medium light shooting because it is technically accurate, and I have seen the difference between them first hand, and if picture quality is of paramount performance, then the VX2100 is the better choice for camcorders in this class. (Of course, if you have $10,000 or more to spend, there are some MUCH better camcorders in THAT class.)

Oh, and I DID read up on the GL2, and didn't come across that feature (I guess most people don't consider it important... I don't for my own shooting), and even played around with one several months ago (a buddy of mine that works in the Broadcasting department of the local college swears by them)... now that you say it, I do recall the controls there, but I forgot (mostly because I don't use that feature, not even on my VX2100)... but big whoop... the point was that the VX2100 takes superior footage. And that's still just as true in this message as it was in my previous messages.

Regarding the audio problems you're talking about, they were LIMITED to the first batches of the PD170... and yes, there are RUMORS about the VX2100 having the same problems, ONLY because it is for the most part the same camcorder as the PD170, which DID have the audio hiss with the flip-out monitor open, and some people just ASSUMED it would be on the VX2100, and as such it is JUST RUMOR. I purchased my VX2100 in the beginning of December, and have not had ANY audio problems of any kind... and I've already shot about 30 hours on it. (BTW... this reminds me, for those of you looking for a lot of inexpensive MiniDV cassettes, you can buy MiniDV cassettes from B&H pretty cheap! (The more you buy, the cheaper per unit they are!)) Regardless, the audio problem that DID exist in the PD170 has been CORRECTED by Sony, so all new PD170s and VX2100s will NOT have this issue, so, it's NOT AN ISSUE for someone purchasing a new camera.

So, OK, truce... that's cool... skateboard videos is your thing, great, cool... it would be nice if you'd show your stuff off over the web, so users can see your work... it will help them decide on their camcorder much more effectively than saying "this camera sux, but this one is the shiznit!" That's up to you, though.

I just read over my post that prompted you to call me an idiot... and I did come across a bit harsh... I've been trying to quit smoking, so... I definitely came across harsher than I meant. SORRY! Maybe I should stay off the boards for a couple weeks until I get through the rough stuff.. lol.